Winter Tyres - Who Will Be Running Them?

[wrxmania]

Hi all,

Going to get some winter tyres - basic advice I got from an expert was buy the blockiest proper full on M+S winter tyre, irrespective of price - ie don't pay £150 for Dunlop's - buy cheap as they tread is most important - and they'll be used in adverse conditions.

Basically don't waste money on a halfway house as, unless I am going to a skinny space-saver rim, the 17's I am putting the tyres on will still struggle.

Thoughts?

Brian

[HairyDJ]

welcome to the winter club

Your expert may be right when he says that the chunky tread should be best - but only on the worst of days!

Get a quality tyre and remember that most of your winter miles will be on normal dry or wet tarmac, not a blizzard. Also, if you're only running this rubber for a few months, they'll last ages so cheapo stuff may not last as long?

[euan_r]

picking mine up next weekend on my refurbished 16" wheels.

i would agree with your expert up to a point. the leggacy runs the cheapest tyres possible all year round, m+s are cheap. its had various makes heros, sportivas,ling longs lol. very rarely get stuck with it in snow, i guess five foot drifts were a bit optimistic. even managed up our farm road in a couple of feet with the space saver on due to puncture. however it runs 185/75/14 or something similar.

my old impreza never got stuck either but it also had canadian snow tyres on, again in smaller 15" size.

i had to stick with 16" to clear the four pot, guess you will have to stay with 17s to clear brembos. i did consider group n wheels to reduce size but they wear out wheel bearings more due to large offset and require centre hole to be machined.

where i would disagree with your expert is the fact that we are likely to be driving in wet weather most of the time. the full blow snow tyres on old impreza i found to be very aquaplaney in standing water.

i was after nokians but was told some of the popular winter brands such as nokian and verstadin were going to be tricky to get a hold of this year due to demand from continent, whether this is true i dont know. was steered to avon winter tyres in the end but have never tried them before so cant comment yet.

[wrxmania]

picking mine up next weekend on my refurbished 16" wheels.

i would agree with your expert up to a point. the leggacy runs the cheapest tyres possible all year round, m+s are cheap. its had various makes heros, sportivas,ling longs lol. very rarely get stuck with it in snow, i guess five foot drifts were a bit optimistic. even managed up our farm road in a couple of feet with the space saver on due to puncture. however it runs 185/75/14 or something similar.

my old impreza never got stuck either but it also had canadian snow tyres on, again in smaller 15" size.

i had to stick with 16" to clear the four pot, guess you will have to stay with 17s to clear brembos. i did consider group n wheels to reduce size but they wear out wheel bearings more due to large offset and require centre hole to be machined.

where i would disagree with your expert is the fact that we are likely to be driving in wet weather most of the time. the full blow snow tyres on old impreza i found to be very aquaplaney in standing water.

i was after nokians but was told some of the popular winter brands such as nokian and verstadin were going to be tricky to get a hold of this year due to demand from continent, whether this is true i dont know. was steered to avon winter tyres in the end but have never tried them before so cant comment yet.

Cheers for the replies.

If you don't mind me asking where did you get your Avon's from and how much/what type are they etc?

I also understand their thinking but essentially they are saying that my current tyres are as good as any winter tyres in the wet etc and only useless in snow/mud. I was planning more on a Winter tyre to get my summer wheels/tyres off though (in saying that we have every season every month so should maybe just run them all year!).

Brian

[euan_r]

Cheers for the replies.

If you don't mind me asking where did you get your Avon's from and how much/what type are they etc?

I also understand their thinking but essentially they are saying that my current tyres are as good as any winter tyres in the wet etc and only useless in snow/mud. I was planning more on a Winter tyre to get my summer wheels/tyres off though (in saying that we have every season every month so should maybe just run them all year!).

Brian

winter tyres have more silica so heat up and work a lot better than summer compounds in low temp. would never run summer tyres in winter especially ones with v shaped tread, just turn in to slicks in snow.

i got the avon ice touring st from turriff tyres but they are taking care of alloys as well so dont know individual costs. looking online they appear to be fairly cheap.

[Guest]

winter tyres have more silica so heat up and work a lot better than summer compounds in low temp. would never run summer tyres in winter especially ones with v shaped tread, just turn in to slicks in snow.

i got the avon ice touring st from turriff tyres but they are taking care of alloys as well so dont know individual costs. looking online they appear to be fairly cheap.

after finding my yokos superb in summer but treacherous in winter was thinking about winter tyres too; especially after the fun from last winter. I had hankooks previously, they coped well in both damp, snow, and when it was dry and cold. was shocked at the price of the pzero and pilot winter tyres so cheap seems to be the order of the day. I had bridgestones winter tyres from japan on 16s, which were good in the wet icy slush. had a good crack with them on the A90 when the drifts (snow) occur.

one thing I have found that the "physics" of the car are amplified in that although the acceleration is still there relatively - stopping distances and cornering speeds are reduced to greater effect. ABS isn’t ideal either. in other words dont expect winter tyres to give that much greater performance rather they give a more assured performance.

I had goodyear f1s on the wifes car and couldnt get up the drive last winter as teh road hadnt been salted and snow packed to ice - swapped over for some cheapy federals I had in the garage and was able to get up (never changing wheels in snow again!). both "summer tyres" but the federals had a lot more "broken" tread and sips.

[scooby222]

i use eagle f1's all year round, for winter i swap to the standard 17's still with them on

never had an problems with them except in packed or deep snow then i switch to bf goodrich all terrains and an l200 pickup but maybe not so handy on the scoob

though tour of mull legend callum duffy runs a legacy outback on the all terrains as an everyday car - looks quality

[scouk]

OOh thanks for the reminder.. Forgot about winter tyres this year.. Got Toyo T1-R's on at the mo. Like you say great in summe rand wet roads but will me more lethal than the bridgestones I had before and there was very little turn in grip with them

I had Toyo Snowprox's on my list to checkout this year.. CAmskill doing 215x17x45 for £115 each (although currently out of stock) Avons are more the £90 MARK.. Ive heard a few bad reports about vredestein quadtrac's in the past with regards to grip levels, but that may just be people expecting them to grip like summer tyres on a warm dry day..

Need to tidy up a set of alloys first though..

[terzo neil]

i'll stick with my RE070's for all year round

it was interesting in the snow in janthis year, never got stuck either, it was twitchy

[lewisscoob]

I have 4x Vredestien Snowtrac 3's fitted at the moment, luckily they are fitted to my daily runner punto! They were only £60 each!

[johns]

I've been running a set of Michelin Aplin PA2s for the past 5 winters (this will be their 6th coming up!!).

Whilst they might not be the ultimate winter tyre, they are perfect for the winter conditions we get up here. I notice a big difference in wet grip, especially stability under braking when the temperatures get lower (below about 5 degrees) and their might be grit and salt on the roads.

On snow and ice the difference is simply staggering. On normal summer tyres (this includes the Goodyear F1s that I've run a few sets of in the past), you are teetering about in poor conditions with almost zero grip. The 4WD of the Impreza keeps you going under most circumstances with the traction, but braking and tunring in (or doing both at the same time) need to be done very slowly and carefully.

With the winter tyres fitted, much of the time you can drive normally and barely notice the poor conditions. When my tyres were new, I actually had to provoke the car in poor conditions to get wheelspin. On normal road tyres, even in third and 4th gear on a standard car wheelspin isn't far away. The biggest difference is in braking. You can actually get reasonable levels or retardation going downhill on a snow and ice covered road. On normal tyres the ABS will just kick in and you'll follow the camber of the road to one side with little or no control.

The road I drive to work has a steep (about 1 in 3 climb), and even with 6 to 9 inches of snow it's no problem to get up and down.

The most memorable example was two years ago, when the junction at the end of my road had been polished to an icy sheen by the cars the previous night. It's a long downhill slope onto the main road. I approached the junction behind a very slow moving Focus (around walking pace) that was struggling to slow down and it was still 50 yards from the junction. I tried my brakes, felt I had quite a bit of grip and was able to overtake the focus on the downslope, brake safely for the junction and pull out onto the main road. The focus eventually slithered to a stop halfway across the main road when I was 100 yeards clear of the junction.

I normally run my winter tyres between the end of November to around mid March. I've done about 20,000 miles on mine now and they are down to about 3- 4mm depth remaining. I'll see how I get on this winter, but might replace them for a new set.

The Michelins are usable in normal road conditions as well, but the steering will feel spongy. The PA2s (now replaced by the PA3s) are speed rated to 130mph. They will understeer easily on warm dry roads, thanks to the softer sidewalls, many sipes in the tread blocks and the high silica content rubber, but you soon get used to this.

I got mine from Costco, who regularly do a 20% offer if you buy a set of 4. Think mine cost £85 each about 6 years ago and it's been the best money I've spent on my Imprezas

John

[trogg]

I priced them at Costco this year and they were something like £165 each.

Think I'll try for a set of Nokians.

I also have a pair of part worn Bridgestone Blizzaks in 205 50 16 size (on Subaru alloys) if anyone is interested.

[craigdmcd]

Just got a set of Vredstein Wintracs secondhand for £240 and a set of STi8 rims so I can clear my Brembo's., and am looking forward to some nasty weather to try them (if I ever get the car on the road!).

And BTW Neil, here is the bad news. Your summer tyres aren't only pants in the winter (compared to winter tyres), but they wear out a lot quicker in cold conditions

For what it's worth, apparently Nokian tyres are made in Scandinavia, so their winter tyres should be superb

Edited September 17, 2010 by craigdmcd

[scooby222]

yea but Neils tyres do have Neil at the wheel - bringing his considerable skill and,ahem, downforce to the party

[paulcoleman]

I was hoping to be running winter tyres this year, but I initially had issues finding a set of spare 15" alloys. Then some sets finally came up and I had run into cash flow issues by then. Still hoping I can pick some up, but to be honest even though it was a little hairy at times the scoob is the best car I've had in the snow even with 17's on. Do-able, but I would feel better with winter tyres on!

Paul

[trogg]

I was hoping to be running winter tyres this year, but I initially had issues finding a set of spare 15" alloys. Then some sets finally came up and I had run into cash flow issues by then. Still hoping I can pick some up, but to be honest even though it was a little hairy at times the scoob is the best car I've had in the snow even with 17's on. Do-able, but I would feel better with winter tyres on!

Paul

I have a set of 16's for a reasonable price if interested.

Could include two part worn winter tyres too.

PM if you want more info.

[Robertio]

IMHO a set of Nokian WR is all you need on a scoob in Scotland - I run out of ground clearance before I run out of traction on them. Previously I had out and out snow tyres (even had holes for fitting studs) which were great up to 8-9 degrees, but once you got to that temp and were driving at normal speeds performance dropped big time. The WR's are good up to 15deg (or so) and then start to tail off so are a much better option for our winters.

If I sell my scoob before winter then I'll have a set of really rough standard 16's with one winter old WRs available - unfortuantely they are too big for the Williams so I'll have to buy a new set for it.

[alzayuk300]

Mines will be wearing axle stands as I'm taking it off the road for the winter. nice £200 beater saves any damage getting done.

[thebigfelly]

the website for national tyres has some decent tyres , not sure what the prices are like compared to anywhere else , but they also have a special offer part where you download and print the voucher and take it to whatever branch you need and you get discount,

cant find anything for winter tyres tho ..

[euan_r]

Thought id bump this thread after giving the tyres a good test today.

Had a fair bit of snow last night on top of snow from day before that had become that wet snow stuff, the worst type i find for traction. Even took a few run ups to get the leggacy up the road in the morning with its skinny wheels on.

First up i am very impressed with braking control even on b road compressed snow. Did a we test at 30 and put on the brakes hard (generally a no no) but car stopped shockingly quickly with no drama. Wont bulls****, im not into going fast or sideways with impreza in the snow as its too precious to me for that but i found i actually had to provoke car with WOT to get any slippage. I leave the fun and games for unused laybuys and carparks.

Arriving home in the evening, after more snow, i found my folks have stuck the forrester on farm road but type r with dccd is tucked up safe and well in its garage without any struggle :biggrinsanta:

Driving in normal wet weather i havent had the the same lack of water displacement i had experienced with a set of full blown snow tyres i had on an old impreza either.

Im very impressed and am glad i decided to make the investment, money well spent imho.

[wrxmania]

Where did you get your tyres, what wheel size and price?

Still looking to get a set for my 17's...

Brian.

[euan_r]

i got 205/55/16, slightly taller than subaru recommended but any increase in height, however marginal, is better as i have brand new front end. i dropped off an old scabby set of oe wheels with worn tyres at turriff tyres and left them to be fully refurbed and new tyres fitted. i was 600 all in. I could have saved a good bit off that by shopping around but i couldnt be bothered and took easy option.

[ali37]

Put my winter tyres on earlier this week they are huge improvement in this weather.

Another big thumbs up for Nokian WR2's.

[johns]

I've had mine on for two weeks now - absolute godsend in these conditions. Looks like we have about 9 - 12 inches of snow out this way now, and many of the side roads are completely untreated.

[fuzzy975]

Been trying to get some but not having much luck. Might be the ebay route.