stum450n Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Some of you may remember that we recently teamed up with Subaru UK and asked you to submit your questions to Paul Tunnicliffe, Subaru UK's MD... Well, as promised here are parts one and two of his response to your questions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PR-TupYF9c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcIbI4LyH5s The full transcript will be published in the next issue of True Grip... enjoy! Link to comment
t5nyw Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Interesting but does seem like its all our fault. Your either a uk Angel Or Your a Devil and engine blew because You Tracked it You modified it You over rev'd it Yes the pistons damaged through stress but pure conjecture that the above are the true causes of that stress. IMHO I can use his same logic. I know one without warranty that has been Tracked, tweaked and hit the limiter more times than I've had hot dinners. And still runs sweet he had a cossy bottom end waiting 20+k later still on original. Link to comment
salsa-king Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 what does he class as normal stress though? the cars do 0-60 in 5secs anyway.. 150mph.. so do you have to drive like your ina Metro to keep the engines.. safe??? Link to comment
t5nyw Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) To be fair at least he was willing to discuss this with the SIDC. I understand and agree that modified Cars shouldn't be covered by warranty;) but changing a silencer GET REAL!! This is one reason I have bought 2 JDM Subarus and stopped buying UK ones. My JDM Made 329bhp with OEM exhaust on I fitted a 3' sports cat system and still made 329 bhp I then remapped the ECU and got 349bhp. So no gains but better sound until the remap IMHO Tony it is a long time since performance gains were made by changing a silencer. Today's cars ECU's control it's power end off. Edited January 3, 2011 by T5NYW Link to comment
mike_pinder Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Very well done to SIDC for pushing the point following the Hatch engine failures The explanations from Subaru's M.D regretably just raises my pulse (again). He quotes a 2% failure rate, yet i have an e-mail from Subaru stating the failure rate is running at 7% !!. The whole tone of the reply once again appears to lift the responcibility from the shoulders of Subaru and drop it straight onto their customers. My own opinion is that Subaru have tried there level best to body swerve this issue from day one. There are mapping issues which would appear to be un-resolved. The original reflash proceedures were handled poorly (check the forums). I am not convinced that Subaru are being honest with their customers and for this reason they have lost a huge amount of brand loyalty. There is still a cloud hanging over the Hatch STI and Subaru have failed to grasp how concerning this is for there customers. We enter a period soon where early cars run out of warranty. Lets see how customer focussed Subaru are then. Respect your customers Subaru, don't treat us all as fools !!! Link to comment
t5nyw Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) There are mapping issues which would appear to be un-resolved. The original reflash proceedures were handled poorly (check the forums). As said in my Previous Post, An early classic V4/V5 a panel filter and Decat would equal more power because chocked by these components. The newage cars have better control for emmisions. The Hatch ECU has SOOOO much control over the Engine how can fitting a Silencer over stress a Piston. Respect your customers Subaru, don't treat us all as fools !!! The trouble is he seriously believes that 99% of failures are due to us "Fools" because his engineers says so. Are they same Engineers who designed the Hatch ECU and Engine? They are both state of the Art, Ultra sofisticated They have greater Band width than a Hawkeye, Fly-by-wire Throttle, 3 engine "Maps" and Dual VVT. yet still use Fuel cut as a REV limiter how safe that But all this Tecnology and the ECU CANNOT control the stress put on the Engine had better ones come out of a Christmas cracker Perhaps Subaru should sue the designers. So the ECU does millions of calculations in a minute and the driver must not put his foot down too hard, that's the best one i've heard in ages Tony Edited January 3, 2011 by T5NYW Link to comment
Derek FKS 85 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Very interesting that he mentioned the emissions targets that all manufacturers were having to comply to, he didn't elude as to what had to be done to the engines in the way of 'de-tuning', (leaning out, softening?) to meet those requirements though. Is this perhapse the real issue that he has let out, trying to de-tune a performance designed engine to meet unrealistic emissions targets? I wonder if he regretted bringing that one up after the interview. Fair play to him sitting there talking to us about our issues though, long may that continue. I'd welcome his offer to have a data logger fitted post warranty though, I've never hit the limiter on mine, (there is no performance advantage in doing this), service record intact and the car warmed up properly and not driven like a maniac all the time, so if it goes pop I'm covered for a while at least. Link to comment
JSFB Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well done SIDC for pushing on the chocolate engines. Just confirms that these guys dont know what story to stick to. Eventually had to get rid of my hatch after two engine failure and IM refusing to extend the warrenty and was denfinetly not offered any tracker data logger or would have taken one just to prove that they a full of S*it. Car never modded, serviced properly, never tracked, not 17 so dont drive like i stole it anymore either. The excuses and blame are unreal its going to be sad to watch the subaru brand disappear from the UK over the next couple of years. Less than 2% my arse. Link to comment
stum450n Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 As he said: Engines these days cannot just be about performance, they have got to be about delivering low CO2, we do not operate in isolation from the whole CO2 debate, you know, you’ll see companies like Aston martin having to bring in the Toyota IQ, you see Porsche developing hybrids and using diesel engine technology it’s all about the same thing, everybody has to deliver low CO2, they can’t just produce cars with high performance any more. The sad thing is though, it's not Subaru making these rules, it's the bloody governments legislating and they've proven time and time again that they know sweet FA about what's best for the world. We all know the boxer engine is second to none but, considering external factors, I can understand why compromises have to be made. I don't agree with it for a second but I also don't believe that Subaru do either - I mean, if it were your product, would you be happy compromising on what you know is (and has consistently been proven to be) one of the best engines ever built? I wouldn't. Link to comment
mike_pinder Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Let's be careful here. There are many Government issues that drive us Petrolheads mad but these are nothing whatsoever to do with the engine failures on our cars. Subaru have under engineered the car for there target market. They no the rules of emission regulations and they have not produced a car that can reliably meet them. The fact there are issues is not my gripe, it's the refusal to accept ownership of the root cause. All we have had is body swerving. Link to comment
stum450n Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 UPDATED with Pt1 &Pt2 (see post #1) Link to comment
t5nyw Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I believe was sincere Part 2 and upfront. I'd have been if just bought a car and they devalued it Tony Link to comment
crispyduck Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Congratulations to our SIDC club - the interview was fantastic, the answers polarising opinions, and something I've not seen any 'other club' being able to achieve in such a professional manner. Paul seemed genuine with well considered answers - although not what everyone wanted to hear. Warranty's are a difficult subject. I've had a few new scoobies over the last 12 years and would not expect them to honour a claim if I've modded anything outside of the options brochure or driven it everyday on the rev limiter. We all know how hard it is to detect if a cars been modified and put back to standard, so any clues found along the way are not going to help. With that said I'm confident Subaru would accept most valid claims as there will be faults with a few. I think Sidc might be able to lodge a freedom of information request or something to quantify this 2% / 7% thing. Does anyone know actually how many STi's are sold into Europe? The thing I've personally found with subaru is that the first (cars) are not always the best. For instance I liked my last MY2000 classic the best, waited one generation to get the blob eye out the way, liked the last of my newages the best, waiting again for the hatch to get out the way, then ... well I'm not there yet! what I'm trying to say is they always refine each generation until its end of life. I think they should be commended for the U-turn and bringing back the saloon, although my guess is I'll have to wait for the model after that again to be happy! Well done SIDC and good show to Paul from Subaru for recognising we're a kind of different club. -Steve. Link to comment
salsa-king Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well I've gone for the 330s. reason being that it's come from Subaru with that performance, insurance wasn't a problem as it was a listed car to the insurance companies. I've no need to mod it as its got everything i want on a car.. 330bhp.. will I need more thn that.. I've had 24bhp in the last MY97 scoob I had, still drive the 50bhp Smart 4/2 and just sold the 101bhp Smart roadster.... I'll be well happy with 330bhp! I'll want to extend the warraty on the 330s I pick up on Saturday, just incase anything goes wrong, the back up subaru will give puts my mind at rest. Fingers crossed nothing will happen. Good interview, worth seeing Link to comment
mike_pinder Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well I've gone for the 330s. reason being that it's come from Subaru with that performance, insurance wasn't a problem as it was a listed car to the insurance companies. I've no need to mod it as its got everything i want on a car.. 330bhp.. will I need more thn that.. I've had 24bhp in the last MY97 scoob I had, still drive the 50bhp Smart 4/2 and just sold the 101bhp Smart roadster.... I'll be well happy with 330bhp! I'll want to extend the warraty on the 330s I pick up on Saturday, just incase anything goes wrong, the back up subaru will give puts my mind at rest. Fingers crossed nothing will happen. Good interview, worth seeing The CS400 didn't exactly get a round of applause last night on Top Gear. There does seem to be a bit of Subaru subterfuge with regards to availabilty. Clarkson says they are sold out, reports fromm last year seem to suggest the same. The reality however is that they do seem to have been a bit of a P.R disaster with several delayed launches and reports of limited numbers sold. Taking into account the big prices increases across the STI brand along with similar rises across parts over recent times (not all exchange rate related) a sceptic might suggest that I.M are getting what they can out of the U.K market before a possible change of direction. How do you plead Paul ? Link to comment
Dougs Scoob Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'll want to extend the warraty on the 330s I pick up on Saturday, just incase anything goes wrong, the back up subaru will give puts my mind at rest. Fingers crossed nothing will happen. Good luck with any warranty claims. I paid the extra £300 odd for warranty when I bought my Hawkeye. Felt it was the safe option just incase. Anyway started getting the knocking noises from the shocks which are covered in warranty. I checked the paperwork. Or they were until a month before I took it in for repair. Appartently Subaru had just changed faulty shocks to wear and tear and refused to replace them. I was livid. Still makes me angry. Whats the point in warranty when they will get a way out of paying for it. I've not took the warranty out this year. Feel its pointless. Link to comment
rb5 286 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 the way i take what he is saying, is, that up until 2008 when the hatch was released, no Subaru owner drove their car hard, tuned it, or bounced it off the limiter!!! because if they had, then surely there would have been all these piston issues. and as for the data logger!!! I was never aware of this , I was never offered this when my engine blew up!! I would have quite happily had it fitted. I dealt with Paul directly about my engine failure and he did a lot to help, cant fault that but the customer services were absolutely appaling and tried to manipulate what I said. Link to comment
Hightower Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 just had the shocks replaced on my rb320 under warrenty... no problem at all Link to comment
Dougs Scoob Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 just had the shocks replaced on my rb320 under warrenty... no problem at all You are joking me??? What age is your car and where did you have the warranty repair done? Link to comment
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