Are Subaru Out Of Wrc?

[jamesm]

Very sad day for rallying.

I guess that the economic downturn is really starting to bite and I am sure that the next 2 or 3 years will be a dark time for motorsport in general.

Subaru and rallying have been synonymous for so many years now that whilst they haven't been competitive over the last few seasons, it is a huge blow for the sport.

Ever since the end of the 555 sponsorship, SWRT haven't had any big sponsors and you wonder if that has played a part in the decision as the whole operation must be funded pretty much solely by FHI.

Ikuo Mori leaves the door open for a return in the future but he doesn't guarantee it. After taking a couple of years out, it would be great for them to come back with a winning car built to the new regs, to a new look, well promoted, and better supported WRC.

Certainly there is a chance of Prodrive continuing to be involved with a customer team, but it is a bit late in the day to start securing funding for next year. Hopefully the staff at Prodrive can be redeployed within the company.

[DR Motosport]

Sad day for all involved, and sadly I don't think we will see them back either.

I don't think the 2010 S2000 rules suit an Impreza sized car.

Other manufactures use smaller cars; 206's, Punto's, Corsa's, etc.

There were rumours about over the Summer that Subaru / Prodrive were going to be running 4 cars for next year too.

Who wants to watch a World Championship with 2 Citroens, and 10 Fords (all trying to gang up on Loeb, .................. who will still win anyway)

I also think Ford will be next.

Ford as a company are in deep s****, and their 25 Billion Dollar rescue plan has been rejected by the US Congress .

It will all have to pass down the line somewhere, and a non performing rally team must be in that firing line.

Malcolm Wilson has been in charge now for 12 years, and what have they won.

Nothing.

0 drivers titles and only 2 manufacturers titles, and all that on the largest budget over the same period.

I think I'll cancel those plans for Finland and Spain, next year.

David

[zeolite]

I feel sorry for the guy who won the 2 days with SWRT at the McRae Gathering auction. The poor guy must be absolutely gutted! I know I would be. (i was prepared to go a grand on that prize as well)

Rallying has had 2 team years before (lanciavMazda in the first year of GpA for example) but I do think it is time for a rethink on the rules. I am not convinced by the S2000 rules and I would like to see a return to production plus cars like GpA was but without the 5000 minimum build. I wonder if anyone will be building cars at all in the next few years. There are 1000s stockpiled around the world.

I know dealers are looking at some very lean times ahead and both Ford and Citroen shouldn't be considered definites for next year.

[st3ph3n]

Ian - wasn't the 2 days with prodrive for Wales anyway? So it'll be done and dusted now.

Ford are more stable than GM but are still essentially a sitting duck. The WRC is small potatoes to a huge brand like them though. Subaru are a much smaller company and the WRC represented a farily large expenditure.

I think the S2000 based rules could be okay. If Subaru and Toyota do unveil this much rumored lightweight coupe this year then whose to say that wont be appearing in 2010?

[scouk]

Well i'm gutted about that. I just told my Bro he was speakin sh*te and it was Suzuki that pulled out & not Subaru. How wrong was i!

PMSL! I near did the same thing when mine texted me at 1pm.. Just about to hit send on a reply when I thought I better check

Sad news indeed... I'm surprised Ford are still involved TBH, they are if deep doo-doo in the real world..!

Worryingly is the comments from the head of FHI about them achieving all their goals with WRC about brand awarenesss! That "almost" sounds like they have no need for WRC any more BLoody hope not! Regardless what anyone thinks.. Subaru and Rallying go together in the same way McRae and Subaru go together... It is certainly a sad day.. I really hope they come back in 2010 and come back with a new car which fans and spectators love and kicks everyone elses butt!!

Will be also good if the new regulations bring out more varied manufacturers! Sick of seeing these frenchies winning everything

Edited December 16, 2008 by ScoUK

[RS Grant]

According to a post on Passionford on the WRC subject, the Ford WRC team are requesting £100million for this season... whether or not thats correct I can't say, but they are running a big team so it will be a pretty sizeable amount required.

Cheers,

Grant

[DR Motosport]

Rallying has had 2 team years before (lanciavMazda in the first year of GpA for example)

Group A rules replaced the Group B rules for 1987.

In that year there were works teams from Lancia , Mazda, Ford (XR4x4, later the Cosworth), VW (Golf) and Audi (won the safari with the 200 Quattro)

I can't remember any year that there were only 2 teams.

Edited December 16, 2008 by DR Motosport

[mikeyb13]

Every Cloud has a Silver Lining, at least Subaru wont have any reason to continue to make that awful looking Max Power Focus lookalike thing that was introduced to make them more competitive in WRC!

[RATechnology]

Very sad day for rallying.

I guess that the economic downturn is really starting to bite and I am sure that the next 2 or 3 years will be a dark time for motorsport in general.

Subaru and rallying have been synonymous for so many years now that whilst they haven't been competitive over the last few seasons, it is a huge blow for the sport.

Ever since the end of the 555 sponsorship, SWRT haven't had any big sponsors and you wonder if that has played a part in the decision as the whole operation must be funded pretty much solely by FHI.

Ikuo Mori leaves the door open for a return in the future but he doesn't guarantee it. After taking a couple of years out, it would be great for them to come back with a winning car built to the new regs, to a new look, well promoted, and better supported WRC.

Certainly there is a chance of Prodrive continuing to be involved with a customer team, but it is a bit late in the day to start securing funding for next year. Hopefully the staff at Prodrive can be redeployed within the company.

During the years after the 555 deal Prodrive and Subaru were offered many deals to fund the program... Some very notable high profile offers of blank cheques and as many 0's as they needed. Only to be turned down because said sponsors only requirement was the car had to be painted a colour other than blue... Of course FHI didn't like the idea of a non blue subaru so the deals never came off!

There will be customer programs next year for sure, Adapta with Mads already has a car on the way and needless to say the cars still being used in Holland, Ireland, etc that are under contract will still need engineering and parts support.

Having said that Ireland has hit the brakes big time and I don't see too many WR cars being out on a regular basis next year!

Kris Meeke must be counting his lucky stars this week having confirmed his deal in the IRC with Peugeot UK.... A supremely talanted and really nice bloke has finally got a chance to shine again with a full program!

[DR Motosport]

During the years after the 555 deal Prodrive and Subaru were offered many deals to fund the program... Some very notable high profile offers of blank cheques and as many 0's as they needed. Only to be turned down because said sponsors only requirement was the car had to be painted a colour other than blue... Of course FHI didn't like the idea of a non blue subaru so the deals never came off!

There will be customer programs next year for sure, Adapta with Mads already has a car on the way and needless to say the cars still being used in Holland, Ireland, etc that are under contract will still need engineering and parts support.

Having said that Ireland has hit the brakes big time and I don't see too many WR cars being out on a regular basis next year!

Kris Meeke must be counting his lucky stars this week having confirmed his deal in the IRC with Peugeot UK.... A supremely talanted and really nice bloke has finally got a chance to shine again with a full program!

The biggest deal I remember was Coca Cola, but they wanted the cars painted red / white........

Coca Cola managed to get Santa Claus to change from a green suit to a red one, but not Subaru

David

[micra_wrc]

I feel sorry for the guy who won the 2 days with SWRT at the McRae Gathering auction. The poor guy must be absolutely gutted! I know I would be. (i was prepared to go a grand on that prize as well)

aye Ian, st3ph3n is right, the guy that won the SWRT prize was happily working away at Rally GB, it was done and dusted 2 weekends ago

i'm also gutted to hear that SWRT are out of the WRC next year - we were all set to go to Ireland as well

dont want to go if its only Citroen and Ford in the game

oh, and without getting too technical, does the new"S2000" rule mean that 4wd cant compete?

[colzo]

During the years after the 555 deal Prodrive and Subaru were offered many deals to fund the program... Some very notable high profile offers of blank cheques and as many 0's as they needed. Only to be turned down because said sponsors only requirement was the car had to be painted a colour other than blue... Of course FHI didn't like the idea of a non blue subaru so the deals never came off!

Always wondered why there were no sponsorship but that's just ridiculous. Will probably not follow the WRC now as it was Subaru and Mitsubishi that got me into it in the first place.

[RATechnology]

The biggest deal I remember was Coca Cola, but they wanted the cars painted red / white........

Coca Cola managed to get Santa Claus to change from a green suit to a red one, but not Subaru

David

David the other one was Jack Daniels! They again wanted the cars in Black! I've seen some impressions of the design and it look S*** Hot!

Imy, Do yourself and Grant a favor and go to Ireland! Even if it's just for the Craic! It'll still be an event to remember! Even club rallies in Ireland are great fun to go to, even if the driving can sometimes be questionable! 150 car entries still even though times are bad!

S2000 cars for rallying are 4wd. 2L naturally aspirated. they use a common gearbox from either SADEV or X-Trac, it was used to give companies without a turbo engine and 4wd cars a chance to compete in Group N. More expensive than a Subrau or Evo Group N car, same sort of power less weight and less torque. They still sound fantastic

[cusco kid]

Probably can't fund another venture into WRC becasue they don't have the money due to no one buying their crappy hatchback design. Reap what you sow!

HEY WELSHO ALL YOU WILL SEE IS MY BUMPER LEAVING YOU LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLONG WAY BEHIND M8 GEO

[craigdmcd]

I also think Ford will be next.

Ford as a company are in deep s****, and their 25 Billion Dollar rescue plan has been rejected by the US Congress .

It will all have to pass down the line somewhere, and a non performing rally team must be in that firing line.

Malcolm Wilson has been in charge now for 12 years, and what have they won.

Nothing.

0 drivers titles and only 2 manufacturers titles, and all that on the largest budget over the same period.

David

David, my mate is the Sparco Worldwide Motorsport Rep (don't know if that is a good job to have right now ), but he knows all the F1, WRC, A1GP teams etc, and he can guarantee, that Ford's bill is nowhere near that of Citroen. It's just that Malcolm has been damned shrewd and put some other eggs in the basket in case the Ford ones fell out (remember when they lost Markko Martin and Francios Duval in 2004 IIRC because of Ford's late decision to give a budget). It's just clever money management that gets people like Stobart and Abu Dubai Tourism on board in case something goes Pete Tong - as it looks like it is about to.

[st3ph3n]

£100m to run a rally team seems ridiculous. You get back of the grid F1 for that sort of money and I know which is the most prestigious.

The rules for 2010 are for S2000 based, so they'd take an S2000 car and add a turbo and a mild aero package to it. So in theory Subaru could take the Impreza 2.0R and use that to make the S2000 car.

In theory people could start doing a team dynamics style assault without manufacturer backing. They managed quite nicely in BTCC. Personally I think going to a cheaper cost is the way to bring Rally back to the glory days. No one wants to see only 6 top flight cars going through a forrest before the also rans appear. Especially when it's 2 citroens and 4 fords.

[RATechnology]

£100m to run a rally team seems ridiculous. You get back of the grid F1 for that sort of money and I know which is the most prestigious.

The rules for 2010 are for S2000 based, so they'd take an S2000 car and add a turbo and a mild aero package to it. So in theory Subaru could take the Impreza 2.0R and use that to make the S2000 car.

In theory people could start doing a team dynamics style assault without manufacturer backing. They managed quite nicely in BTCC. Personally I think going to a cheaper cost is the way to bring Rally back to the glory days. No one wants to see only 6 top flight cars going through a forrest before the also rans appear. Especially when it's 2 citroens and 4 fords.

To clear (hopefully) some of the budget issues up Citroen spend more than anyone, in fact they did even when Loeb won the championship for Kronos as a privateer. Ford, then Subaru in the budget stakes. Subaru have been cutting there budget year on year for quite a while

Bare in mind Subaru don't have a title sponsor as Citroen and Ford do. So that again increases the budget and gives them a saftey net if it all goes Pete Tong!

Dynamics manage it in the BTCC for a coupe of reasons, the big reason is they don't need to build 8 cars for a season, they can do it with 2 or 3? Seat have used only 2 shells for the last 2 years! Also Dynamics have some clever people and are helped by not being subjected to manufacturer politics! They've had the right amount of assistance from the rule makers and Honda to make the car a good package!!

Take the Turbo off a Subaru Flat 4 and it may as well be a boat anchor! Sorry! It's heavy and let's face it not that good! Rubbish S2000 car but very good potential for S2000 + (New WRC regs)

It all comes down to who's paying. Malcom Wilson, Like DR are very shrewd men! Not silly and definately don't like spending their own money. Both are very good at spending other peoples money in large quantaties.

The Plus sides of S2000 are there are loads of manufacturers and small companies involved. Yes to win at the moment you need a Fiat & Peugeot (again the 2 biggest budgets) however it hasn't stopped small operations from having a go! MSD (MG & Opel), BriTek (Fiesta), MEM (Proton), R.E.D (Toyota)! plus a few others i'm sure. It's a time when inovation and skill and a bit of money and balls can get you results on not a lot..

It's a sad day for the WRC and could still be made worse if Ford & Citroen leave...

Think that's my latest rant over with!

[mejamj]

JUST INCASE ANY OF YOU HADNT NOTICED SUBARU HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE WRC. AS FOR PRODRIVE THE SWRT PROJECT IS ONLY 20% OF THEIR BUSINESS AS THEY ARE A BIG ENGINEERING AND DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, I THINK IT'S VERY SAD THEY HAVE LEFT BUT I'M SURE DAVID RICHARDS IS CLEVER ENOUGH TO DO A MALCOM WILSON AND RUN CAR'S IN THE FUTURE COMPLETELY RUN BY SPONSORSHIP (LIKE THE ABU DHABI TEAM) SO MAYBE 2009 WILL BE A DEVELOPMENT YEAR AND A BUILD UP FOR 2010 A SABATICAL YEAR WORKED WELL FOR CITROEN AND THE C4 DEVELOPMENT.

PEACE YALL!

[nanaki]

yeah we noticed but thats for shouting it out again for us all

it is crappy news and one wonders about the future of the sport in general now and not just next season.

[zeolite]

Group A rules replaced the Group B rules for 1987.

In that year there were works teams from Lancia , Mazda, Ford (XR4x4, later the Cosworth), VW (Golf) and Audi (won the safari with the 200 Quattro)

I can't remember any year that there were only 2 teams.

I seem to remember that only Lancia and Mazda actually had full factory teams the others had limited programs with semi-works and privateers nominated for manufacturers points. It is a long time ago though and at the time I followed the events quite closely. I have been somwhat jaded with the present WRC and the nature of the events.

[zeolite]

£100m to run a rally team seems ridiculous. You get back of the grid F1 for that sort of money and I know which is the most prestigious.

The rules for 2010 are for S2000 based, so they'd take an S2000 car and add a turbo and a mild aero package to it. So in theory Subaru could take the Impreza 2.0R and use that to make the S2000 car.

In theory people could start doing a team dynamics style assault without manufacturer backing. They managed quite nicely in BTCC. Personally I think going to a cheaper cost is the way to bring Rally back to the glory days. No one wants to see only 6 top flight cars going through a forrest before the also rans appear. Especially when it's 2 citroens and 4 fords.

The thing is Stephen, nobody buys cars because the manufacturer wins F1 do they? I have always had sporting saloon cars from Mk1 Escorts to Subarus (the Alpina was an aberration ). Has anyone ever felt the urge to buy a Renault because they won the F1 championship?

Privateers used to be the backbone of the sport before the present bunch started insisting that Joe Bloggs doing is once a year run around the forests of the UK just wasn't good enough if they wanted to charge spectators to be corraled up in temporary stands.

I hope this will bring about a return to more grassroots rallying in which I am more interested than WRC tbh.

[st3ph3n]

I would agree with you there Ian, but F1 has a lot more marketing potential than WRC. Live qualy and races every week in just about any country. WRC - highlights package on Dave?

A sad day indeed, but with 24 hours to reflect - is this the boot in the backside that WRC desperately needed?

[scouk]

Just read this article on crash.net from David RIchards point of view:

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/wrc/news/1...u_pull-out.html

“The pressure for car companies to cut all discretionary spending must be immense, but there is now a danger that companies are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Subaru have forgotten how their brand image was built.”

I can't help but think we may infact be in in a posiiton of seing the last of the impreza! With the Head oif Fuji heavy coming out with comments like :

“We have achieved our initial objective to improve the brand recognition,”

as if to say, we've done what we came to do and now were movign off elses where!

[rant mode on]

Is this the end for subaru? I think it could end up that way ... This year we have seen the new hatchback impreza.. which quite frankly has sent bigger shockwaves through the subaru / impreza comminity more than the bugeye ever did! SOme have caught on to it many havent... And at the end of the year of disappointign results after promises of a winning car. we have subaru pulling out of WRC (Ok yeah we've got a credit crunch and yeah it is a BIG thing..).. But it's still a kick in the balls to subaru fans there! Not only have we lost two of our finest ever rally drivers in recent years (who not forgetting won the championship behidn the wheel of impreza WRC cars) but now they pull out of the sport which made them what they are today! if it wasn't for prodrive and rallying, subaru may not even be making cars today!! They certainly wouldn't of ever had the impreza which was designed in conjuction with prodrive for rallying!... And possibly not the forester.. who knows...

Ok sometimes companies have to move on.. But if they intend on tryign to make money by selling cars to normal people. it's a bloody competitive market out there, and unfortunately their cars are NOT that competitive with what else is on the market.. Yes they are still a higher performance car.. But how many of us woudl be driving our subaru's if it wasn't for rallying, McRae and Burns? Not many..... How many woudl continue to buy a subaru if they never come back to rallying! I'm guessine we'll be looking elsewhere in a few years time when it comes to change cars...

What subaru is left with its new diesel engine.. Which is fairness does have good support! But they have turned their back on the people who got them this far.. I believe it will be difficult for them to continue without coming back to rallying and and hopefully winning!

[/rant mode off]

... watch this space.....

Edited December 17, 2008 by ScoUK

[zeolite]

I would agree with you there Ian, but F1 has a lot more marketing potential than WRC. Live qualy and races every week in just about any country. WRC - highlights package on Dave?

A sad day indeed, but with 24 hours to reflect - is this the boot in the backside that WRC desperately needed?

Agree about the marketing potential being bigger but NOT for cars. It used to be cigarettes and now it is computers and mobile phones is it not?

Rallying has always been about the cars. The results prove reliablity and speed over difficult conditions and showcase the road cars.

[st3ph3n]

Ian - yes it's true that F1 doesn't want to make me buy the cars. However it's also true of late that WRC doesn't make me want to buy them. The cars are too far divorced from what's in the showrooms now. The Impreza and the Evo were the closest, but they're long gone now!

Al - if Subaru come out with the lightweight coupé that they've been doing with Toyota then I think it will be positioned to be the "fun" car of their range.