Harness In Road Car ?

[scoobykev]

I put my harness in a couple of months ago but haven't used it much.

I replaced the standard fixings on the car with eyelet bolts to allow quick removal

[marky.t.s]

has the playmobil guy not got a harness then Kev?

[thewelsho]

Thanks for the pics etc. Can anyone tell me why this set up is dangerous? I mean I have an idea of what people would say, but I'd like to hear it from wise heads

[paul555sti]

Whats the thoughts on harness bars ?

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop/sparc...chol-p-400.html

[col666]

Thanks for the pics etc. Can anyone tell me why this set up is dangerous? I mean I have an idea of what people would say, but I'd like to hear it from wise heads

Did you have a look at the link's I posted up on the last page? The rear strap should be as near as horizontal as possible it show's you this in the instruction manual you get with the harnesses, well it did with mine (Sabelt)

I've just had a look in my own car at the bolt you have mounted yours to, its only for locating the seat. There's not a chance I would mount a piece of life saving equipment off it. Use the existing seat belt mount's i.e. the ones on the back seat.

[col666]

Harness bar's look good but what happen's if you have rear seat passenger's and you have a head on smash? Even with their belt's on they would prob end up hitting it with some part of their body.

[scientific steve]

Thanks for the pics etc. Can anyone tell me why this set up is dangerous? I mean I have an idea of what people would say, but I'd like to hear it from wise heads

It’s due to the fact that the harness strap is going straight down and has no effect in stopping you from travelling forward in an accident.

Just think of a ruler standing on its end, straight up, push it over and it will topple forward.

Now, if you have it on its flat it wont move, same idea as you’ve fitted your harness, it will move forward as its straight up

Hope that makes sence

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Found this on NASIOC :-

Still unsure whether to tell Santa to make a pit stop at the Sabelt or the CG LOck website but pleae keep the info /pics coming

edit - crappy spelling

Edited November 30, 2008 by ~ ~ Cal ~~

[colin_ross]

Col's right about that bolt not really being up to the job but my main concern is where it's located. Sit in the drivers seat and strap yourself in. Now pull the seat tilt lever and move forward as far as you can. Are the straps pulling you back or pulling you down and how far fprward can you move?

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Assuming you have the option to remove the back seats.............would you be inclined to weld some plate /hooks ( Demon Tweak) jobbies along the back (topside) of the rear seat ?

Welding in & around the fuel pump neck of the woods could be interesting though !

[scoobykev]

has the playmobil guy not got a harness then Kev?

Obviously, safety to all my passengers is paramount

[gus the bus]

Obviously, safety to all my passengers is paramount

FPMSL

[corsa]

Assuming you have the option to remove the back seats.............would you be inclined to weld some plate /hooks ( Demon Tweak) jobbies along the back (topside) of the rear seat ?

Welding in & around the fuel pump neck of the woods could be interesting though !

Cal, why do you have your car in your living room?

[gus the bus]

Thanks for the pics etc. Can anyone tell me why this set up is dangerous? I mean I have an idea of what people would say, but I'd like to hear it from wise heads

John, in an accident and not a particular heavy one the rear belt section fitted there could break your seat back and your own back too

Please, please, please dont use it in that position. At very worst bolt them into your rear seatbel mounts (per Cals interior photo) its not perfect BUT is MUCH better than where you currently have them mounted IMHO.

[ed-209]

Found this on NASIOC :-

Still unsure whether to tell Santa to make a pit stop at the Sabelt or the CG LOck website but pleae keep the info /pics coming

edit - crappy spelling

Good diagram, but thats for FIA standards(fitting to a roll cage), in a road car without the roll cage it means that all scoobies with harness fitted to rear seat points ether front or rear seatbelt points are below the 90 Deg's and not allowed, I think we really need someone to point us in the right direction. When I did mine, I asked a MOT examiner to check it and as long as the harness are E approved and don't interfear with the orginal seatbelts - operation and mounting then they are fine. I did say to jw about the if the car rolls, with a harness and no roll cage you can't move out the way, but if your going fast enough to collapse the roof, moving out the way is the least of your problems. also newage scoobies (blob and hawk) have a reinforcement across the roof and down the b pillar (part of the safety cell and also frameless doors), don't know about the 08 models.

Cal at the top, you can see to bolt holes, about half way from the seatbelt reel and the iso bar that's where mine where fitted to, reinforced with 6mm steel plates welded into the car.

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Cheers Ed - not so sure about this hole spine compression theory and like you say there is still uncertainty.

This install is quite neat but again relies on anchor points too low down ( ??)

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?...t=000593#000001

I think in all honesty I may just go with the CG lock because when I have been in a Caterham before the harness rode up when I hauled hard on the shoulder straps

[paul555sti]

Harness bar's look good but what happen's if you have rear seat passenger's and you have a head on smash? Even with their belt's on they would prob end up hitting it with some part of their body.

I should have said that the back seats wont be used.

[chunkymonkey]

seems to me that there are 2 scenarios

you either need harnesses for competition/track use, or you are putting yourself in harms way, in same cases for purely cosmetic reasons! sorry, but that's my take on it.

if you are serious about your safety then using harnesses in any variety of home made, badly thought out, clip em and go operation is probably more dangerous to your health than a standard lap and diagonal belt. many have said you feel safer and put on race faces and drive in a more unrestricted fashion. i think if you do that without them being properly fitted then you delude yourself into thinking you have more protection than you have.

come on chaps. harnesses are designed for competition use in an appropriate environment. if they were such a good thing for road cars then we'd all be driving around with 4 point seat belts now. they aren't, and we aren't so unless they are fitted at the kind of angles the FIA mandates, and on solid seats then you are more at risk than you think.

any ideas how your life insurance of health insurance company would view a fatality or a disabling accident in a car fitted with non standard seatbelts?? and before you start with the fact that they may pass an MOT test that won't stop them trying to wriggle out of it. also, anyone got any experience of how your car insurer views the fitment of non standard belts? i asked mine and was quite surprised by the answer!

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Good post - I am not interested in bling but I love the feeling of being pinned in. You can really steer with ease when you're not using your arms to support the lateral weight transfer

I'm not sure if we'll ( Scottish Scoobies) ever come to a collective conclusion on this one

CGS

[thewelsho]

Cheers Ed - not so sure about this hole spine compression theory and like you say there is still uncertainty.

This install is quite neat but again relies on anchor points too low down ( ??)

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?...t=000593#000001

I think in all honesty I may just go with the CG lock because when I have been in a Caterham before the harness rode up when I hauled hard on the shoulder straps

Yeah the lap belt does ride up and its a pain, though once the racing seats are in, this wont happen as the belts come through the holes in the sides of the seats which hold the belts down. As for the CG Lock; I still have mine and it works well, not as well as a harness but to be honest, the CG Lock is pretty remarkable for what it is.

I'm not really buying into the arguement that says if harnessess are safer than standard belts in a road car, then all cars would be fitted with them on all seats. I'm sure car manufacturers would not want to pass that expense onto the consumer as this sort of safety measure would be deemed as excessive. Standard belts appease safety standards and laws, therefore, why go all those extra miles for something that is OTT?

When I'm belted in, I'm secured tightly to the seat. As I said though, its easy enough to give some slack when required and I almost never drive with the belts on with full tension. I will have a look at securing the belts in the seatbelt thing as suggested, that is, if I can work out how to get into those bolts.

[fai17]

Welsho...

Remove rear seat cushion and look for the 14mm bolt that hold the rear seat belt clasp.

Then use that 14mm to hold your harness in place too.

But this is still a very interesting ref road car/harness issues

[zeolite]

I used to do a lot of road-rallying back in the 80s andas such I wanted something more supportive than the standard lap strap. When I used the caged Escort we had no back seats so used a 4 point however this was a pain when reversing (missed slots etc). I got a Mazda 323 and I bought some Schroth harnesses that were perfect. They had front links that you could fit to the standard mounting points and the rear link slotted into the rear seat holder and had an inertia reel just like a standard lap strap. To me these are the best road car harness as you can push the shoulders down just like a lapstrap to lean forward. However I did get stopped by the polis once and told to remove them. AFAIK harnesses are not road legal perhaps some of our police members could advise.

Don't know if these are still available.

[thewelsho]

AFAIK harnesses are not road legal perhaps some of our police members could advise.

Oh great! Hope you're wrong about that or that is another reason to get stopped!

Edit to say: On second thoughts, that can't be right because rally cars are road legal which of course they wouldn't be if harnessess were illegal. Just a thought, will probably be wrong as usual.

Edited December 1, 2008 by TheWelsho

[zeolite]

Oh great! Hope you're wrong about that or that is another reason to get stopped!

Edit to say: On second thoughts, that can't be right because rally cars are road legal which of course they wouldn't be if harnessess were illegal. Just a thought, will probably be wrong as usual.

Yeah. Its a grey area but I was assured that you have to be able to detach your belt one-handed and that harnesses can't be done one handed. This is, of course, crap as any helicopter passenger will tell you. Nevertheless I was told to remove them by a policeman on a dark night in Aberdeen.

[big den]

Cheers Ed - not so sure about this hole spine compression theory and like you say there is still uncertainty.

This install is quite neat but again relies on anchor points too low down ( ??)

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?...t=000593#000001

I think in all honesty I may just go with the CG lock because when I have been in a Caterham before the harness rode up when I hauled hard on the shoulder straps

In the above link, these are the belts & how they are fitted in my STI. When looking at getting harnesses, I exchanged comms with Sabelt about where to mount them, safety in road car, etc and before I bought them I checked with my insurer & they had no issues but reminded me they would not cover me if I was going to use the car on track, speed trials, etc. Today, I have been phoning around for renewal quotes & no-one has had any problems when I advised them about having the harnesses fitted. If they were illegal in road cars then surely the insurance companies would not cover you?

Den