How do I improve my BHP

[Blind Benz]

Have just had our (Zan the Witch) Subaru on the rolling road MY 2000 5 door car has done 21000 miles

All the readings have come out ok with regard to its performance 220 BHP @ the wheels

all nice and standard.

Want to get the BHP up to around 250 to 260 BHP

What?s the best way apart from rebuilding the engine/fitting an upgraded turbo or changing the ECU.

Do not want to total decat the exhaust. Do not want to have to keep putting back on to get through the MOT.

Or is it impossible with out doing the above or may be I should just sell it and buy a WRX,STI or a P1

[quicksprint]

220 bhp @ the wheels ???? don't you mean at the flywheel.

steve.

[Blind Benz]

No thats what they quoted me (will scan the graph at work tomorrow and post it tomorrow)

Have used the place a number of times before.

Companys called Hi-Tech MotorSport in Cradley Heath has done work for mags when they have had there open days there

Guy who runs the pace was trained with Carol Shelby in the States so I have to assume he knows what he's doing

I asked him out right was the figure he quoted at the wheels or fly wheel several times and he stated at the wheels.

Question when the dealers quote there figures is it at the wheels or the flywheel?

This debate could go on and on like a fishmans tale??

[Toonman]

Hi Benz

If they say you've got 220bhp at the wheels (particularly in this heat), you should be very, very happy! Or their RR is well out... 220 ATW will equal around 300 bhp at the flywheel, and that's what most if not all, manufacturers (not just Subaru), quote.

Cheers and enjoy!

[ZaN-the-Witch]

I notice my other half did not mention he drove like a Deamon on Saturday am & Grannie on Saturday afternoon

Mind you we should let him off, he had just bought 2 new Koi for the garden pond & yours truly was holding them in a plastic bag.

(And no dear, the pond does not need enlarging....again.....!)

Koi have been christened Impreza & Evo....Impreza is the fastest

ZaN

PS whats this about buying a P1..........

[HANNIBAL]

Hi Steve where are you located ? Dave

[Mother Theresa]

Click on his glasses icon top right of his message and you can see. You can turn yours on from your profile.

[chrisp]

Just to give you an idea when I had mine RR it had 195bhp @ the wheels on the same day/same rollers there were 2 fully decatted and induction kitted P1s which both had 290bhp/295bhp @ the fly and both just made 190bhp @ the wheels. To get 220 at the wheels on a RR you are looking at 320-340 @ the fly with a normal transmission. Assumming you dont have a type RA or R drivetrain which have less transmission losses.

Have look here

scooby dynos

[ZaN-the-Witch]

Back again

Have attached graph from dyno.

If it is the case that its at the fly, either way whats the best

way to increase the BHP/Torque

[Blind Benz]

Damn i will never get my posts up if I keep doing under the wifes handle!!!!!

[Money]

That will be at the flywheel.

Cheapest way to get the bhp up is full decat and remap.

WHy dont you want the decat??

Edited to say with anyone hitting over 340bhp at the flywheel i would definitely question. Its not hard to get it over but its maintaining it as well. Can be very costly indeed.

Most of the guys hitting 320bhp leave it as it gets costly!

[chrisp]

Nice graph

The relationship between power and torque is

(torque(lb/ft)*rpm)/5250 = bhp(power)

If I am reading you graph correctly at ~4000rpm your car has 135bhp and 180lb/ft just reading off the graph

(180*4000)/5250= 137bhp

At 5500 rpm it looks like you have 200lb/ft and 210bhp again

(200*5500)/5250=209.5bhp

Anyway enough of the maths . What have you done to the car so far ?

[Blind Benz]

Main reason was because of having to keep putting the cat back on for the MOT

Had thought of replacing the down pipe though but leaving the middle section, though it may defeat the gain from the down pipe?

Can the original ECU be reprogrammed and what?s a typical cost for reprogramming the ECU.

Would changing the induction be of any use? Have heard of problems in the MAF being damaged? If I did change it what would be the best to go for?

Also would it be worth changing the dump valve or is that more cosmetic than actually helping with an increase in performance.

[Blind Benz]

Hi Chrisp

As I said earlier the car is bog standard apart from a Ninja backbox from Scoobyworld

As its a 5 door I did not want too much noise coming inside as the wife drives the car normally and she would soon be moaning!!

I do have another turbo car but its deisel (company motor nice but bloody epensive on the tax front) so i get to play only at weekends

So we have a clean canvas to work with, to do some moderate performance improvments.

[chrisp]

If it was me I would have a remapped chip and decat centre section. The prodrive kit does simliar i.e. removes the centre cat with a centre with a resonator and prodrive put their onw map on. You can buy either with or with resonator centres, the ones with the resonator tend to help keep the noise down but still removes the cat restriction. The car will fly through the MOT with just a downpipe cat otherwise Subaru wouldnt be able to sell the prodrive kits. The ECU remap you are best talking to someone who had a remap. I know scoobysport and power engineeering use the ECUTEK software to remap the ECU but a part from buying a scoobysport exhaust I have had no work done buy either company.

I would have thought a partial decat and remap and you woudl be upto 240-250bhp.

Cost wise, well under a grand.

[chrisp]

Just had a look and the scoobysport ECU remap for 1999-2000 models is £763

scoobysport tuning

[chrisp]

decat cetnre is £105 + fitting

exhaust prices

[chrisp]

you do realise once you remap your warranty is stuffed ?

[Money]

Everything chrisp says

You can remap the ecu. Probably looking about £300 just for a remap

[rasher]

also depends on your budget. If you want to keep your warranty also you could always get the PPP fitted.

Granted it will not give you 260BHP but it will give you 240+

But more importantly it will give you extra mid range urge

[CustomScoobyIOM]

You could get a remapped ECU from Graham Goode Racing www.grahamgoode.com but it is rather costly. Prodrive ECUs pop up all over the place. What year is the car?

Am I to assume that as your name is Blind Benz you could have say a Benx E220 CDI or E320 CDI as a company car?? If so Carlsson do a lovely upgrade for the power....!

[Money]

<< You could get a remapped ECU from Graham Goode Racing www.grahamgoode.com but it is rather costly. >>

Yeah rather costly and for the money you can do 10 times better!

[CustomScoobyIOM]

What would you recommend Money?? Youre right too expensive for me!! I want an uprated ECU and not going the GEMS route....

Is the Greddy Piggyback system anygood?

[Blind Benz]

Hi guys just back from work

Thanks for all the comments

First off company car is a boring Passat TURBO diesel, all very functional and relatively quick for a diesel, just boring it?s fast becoming the new Mondeo man?s car.

Did have Merc just before getting the company car and very much a fan of the three pointed star (yes I even support McLaren F1, cant afford a Ferrari just yet) great car for cruising in traffic or motorway work with cruise control set and also a cheap car to run and repair.

Since Aug of last year we have had a 95 VW Polo, 96 Merc 220 diesel, 2.8 Pajaro SWB, 96 Audi 2.6 convertible and now the Scooby which I must say gives me a big grin every time I? am allowed to use it ( Scoobys the wife?s car as where all the others apart from the Merc)

Anyway, following on from some of the advice posted I have been in touch with TSL Motorsport as a starting point and they agreed with what has already been said.

? Induction stay with current though change element to a GREEN Performance panel Filter

? Can remove centre section along with changing the rear box some improvment. Changing the down pipe gives the best increase in power on the exhaust side, though you do need a friendly MOT station.

? The other mod they recommend is to get the ECU either changed to a MoTec ECU or something similar at about £1800 phew!! Though I am told they sell well second hand.

? Or have the original re-mapped at about £600 to £700 though currently they do not do it yet they will be releasing the upgrade in the next few weeks. I also think one or two of the other tuning centres like Scoobysport or Graham Goode Racing.

Have to have a good think about for now and look to doing the upgrades when we come back off holiday in Aug, if I treat the wife well enough while we are away, she may just let do it?

[Money]

Of course TSL are going to sell you Motec mate - its the most expensive ecu out there! lmao.

But if you arent going decat and arent going to spend a lot (and i mean alot like 15000 in tuning), i wouldnt bother with the motec ecu.

CustomScoobyIOM, how much do you want to spend and what scoob do you have?

Link is good but its about £1400 for the ecu, remap and couple of other bits.

Watch this space. Ive ordered a new ecu from a Scooby company and will let you know when its in and the results. I will be one of the first in the country running it. Its better than Motec, and cheaper than Link (by a long way)!!! Its going to be mental, trust me.

Just to give you some idea, Andy F on scoobynet is running stupid power. Look at this link:

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=216120

440.5 bhp @ 6410rpm

Torque 381 lb-ft at 5700rpm (with over 360lbft from 4300 - 6500rpm)

Boost 1.47 bar max (will post printout if someone can host it ? )

THis new ecu is called Microtech and the Australian boys are running it. Look at http://www.rigoliracing.com.au/subaru_page.html

1/4 miles in 10s!!!

They have link, motec and other ecus over there and they are running the Microtech.

Im telling you, this ecu is cheap. Wait till mine is on and i will let you know how it goes (mine is on its way over).

Failing that, you could always remap the standard ecu. Cheaper than £600-£700. Thats Power engineering figures. A guy had 420bhp wrx (2.0 litre so wasnt stroked) and he had the standard ecu. Just need to know a good mapper which he did