The lost art of overtaking, guidelines on group driving (and how you can still enjoy driving these days)

[johns]

The government have become very successful in drumming the message home that speeding kills, to the point that overtaking is very much a lost artform these days. Virtually no-one overtakes on A and B roads unless they are dual carriageways because they'll need to break the speed limit to do so in a safe distance.

Hence we get long convoys of cars stuck behind someone doing 45mph when they could be doing 60mph legally and safely. The explosion of people carriers and off-road type 4x4s has made the problem worse, as these don't really have the power to overtake, but are very effective at blocking the roads as you can't see past/though them as easily as normal cars. These types of cars generally have enough performance to get up to 55/60mph in a straight line more or less at the same rate as "normal" cars, but due to the high centre of gravity, owners slow down much earlier for corners and go around corners much more slowly. They are then capable of accelerating up to their 55mph cruising speed (assume speedo reads 60mph), oblivious to the fact that cars behind that cannot pass them.

Then when you do get drivers with the skills and performance to overtake safely, you get loads of frustrated motorists getting annoyed/jealous. They have had the SPEED KILLS message drummed into them for the past x years, and so start flashing their headlights, blocking drivers from overtaking and of course phoning the police on their mobile phones to report lunatic drivers who aren't doing anything wrong.

As some of you are aware, the SIDC used to do many weekend runs and events like the Tour d'Ecosse which were fantastic fun, very safe (never had any accidents, speeding tickets or even a producer!), but sadly the increased activity of the police meant that you spent most of the time wondering where and when one or more of the cars would be stopped that day. Where we have had problems in the past is on "one-day" events, where there's less control over who turns up and takes part. At least on the 2 to 3 days TDE events, people were booked into a hotel for a few nights and got to know each other very well. Unlike some of the one-off events where we had a mix of unknown people coming along, who know-one knew, had contact details for and could spoil the whole event through a few dodgy overtaking manoeuvers or speeding in an attempt to keep up or prove they were the best driver.

On the last big TDE (about 50-60 people in total), I developed the idea of splitting all the cars into groups of 4, sending them out on different routes, in different directions every 10 minutes. The idea being that only one group of 4 cars would travel the same stretch of road every 30 minutes, and many roads would only be travelled once. More importantly, it was likely that any other road users would only ever encounter the one group of cars in any direction. Most groups would meet up with others around lunchtime and then head off in different directions again afterwards. People could choose a route with the driving distance and scenery that suited them. Some people did lots of driving, others did only a few hundred miles.

This plan worked very well, and I don't think anyone hardly even saw a police car at any point during the event, though the local police (having seen the cars parked up overnight) did come to our hotel for a quiet word about sensible driving the next morning before anyone set off.

The one big thing that bikes have in their favour, is that it's virtually impossible for anyone other than a hardcore biker to identify individual bikes as make/models as they overtake at speed. Hence any reports that the police pick up as a group of 3/4/5 bikes and there's no proof that any of the dozens of small groups of bikes on any road on any day were responsible. It's so much easier with a group of cars all the same make/model. However, if there are several small groups of the same type of cars on different routes, it's very easy to say that an incident didn't occur in your group. This is more difficult if you have a car in your group that is very distinctive (e.g. stickers, body kit, distinctive colour, easy to remember registration plate etc).

So what can be done ?

From the feedback provided by people who reported "lunatics in sports cars" to police in the past, the one thing that gets people irate is what "they perceive" to be dangerous overtaking or agressive driving. It seems that drivers don't really mind people driving fast, but they hate being put in danger. Hence anyone who tailgates closely, then nips past at the first possible opportunity - possibly followed by a few other cars in close formation is likely to trigger their rage/anger. If you can pass one or more cars without upsetting anyone enough, then no-one will report you for anything (even false stories about dangerous driving!) Most motorists also associate loud exhausts with driving fast, even though cars remained within the limits at all times.

Below are some guidelines and rules that we've developed over the past few years that have helped tremendously. A lot of these can also be used if you are driving on your own to further your enjoyment and safety

Drive only in small groups of no more than 4 cars at a time. Any more, and it starts to become virtually impossible to drive as a single group, as you spend all your time trying to keep the convoy together. It also leads to huge delays at petrol stations, ordering and receiving food at pubs if there is one big group. Smaller groups arriving 10 minutes apart present no such problems. Leave at least 5 minutes between groups on the road, and ideally 10 to 15 minutes.

Driving in a small group of drivers you know (and trust) is much more satisfying especially if everyone drives at or about the same pace. Quite often in a larger group/convoy, you'll get people who want to drive faster and if they are stuck at the back this can lead to frustration and dodgy overtaking. Conversely, some people can end up driving more quickly than they are comfortable with just to keep up and it's only a matter of time then... Most of the time, you'll please 50% of people, 25% will be frustrated at the slow pace, and 25% will be terrified at having driven so quickly if they aren't used to it. Driving in small groups enables drivers to gain valuable experience from others, and this isn't possible in a big group.

Each member in the group should have the mobile phone number of the other cars in their group programmed into their phone before they set-off. That way if someone gets stuck behind traffic and gets lost, they can pull over and talk to the driver/passenger in a car ahead and all is well. This can also be very useful if there's a last minute change of plan (e.g. roadworks, roadside safety/speed checks, unscheduled photo or refreshment stop etc). The lead cars in any group should also have the numbers of the lead cars of ideally all the other groups, but at the very least the group ahead and behind them. That way important information can be relayed to them which may prevent problems.

Keep a good distance between all cars in your group at all time (ie 5 to 10 cars lengths) especially when catching slower cars. That way they know you aren't racing each other. Racing on the public highway is a very serious offence (possibly ranked more serious than dangerous driving!) and the last thing anyone wants is to be accused by a member of the public of racing. Keeping a good distance between the cars virtually eliminates the problem of stonechips. Don't worry if the group gets split up when coming up behind a slower car or group of cars. You'll re-group later at the pre-arranged meeting points. Normally the lead car would slow down from "cruise" speed but still go faster than most other traffic, and the following cars will catch up over the course of 5 - 10 minutes when they find safe opportunities to overtake. If the lead car(s) overtook a group of cars, then they shouldn't stop at the next suitable point. 99% of the time, the cars they overtook will pass shortly afterwards and there is then the problem of passing them again. Exceptions to this are when there is a T junction when it isn't obvious which is the right way to go, when the lead car can wait until the following cars catch up and then drive off slowly so that the following members of the group can see which way they went.

The lead car(s) keeps a safe distance behind the slower car(s) and then waits for a safe opportunity to pass that would allow at least two three cars to pass safely before overtaking. If the lead car nips past in a "tight" space causing either the driver being passed or the oncoming driver to "suck their teeth" or comment to their passengers that "that was close!", then the cars following on behind are on a hiding to nothing, especially if they try to overtake to keep up with the lead car.

Stick religiously to speed limits in all towns and villages at all times. Yes it may mean that the local car you overtook 2 minutes ago catches up with you and sits behind you in a 30mph zone, but it's not something they'll report you to anyone for and they'll respect the fact you are sticking to the limits in areas where their kids or relatives live (even though they might be used to driving through at 40mph themselves!). Don't immediately return to "cruising" speed when leaving a village, especailly if there are cars behind you. Instead pull ahead gently, and build up to speed through a few corners. This way people won't think you are on some sort of "mission".

Look out for local cars and treat as though they were unmarked police cars!!. With a bit of practice, it's very easy to spot local cars. Most Scottish registration plates have an S in the prefix/suffix for example. Locals will know the road they are driving on, so won't slow down too early for some corners, road signs or junctions. Look for local garge stickers in their back window/registration plate. Why should you treat locals with high regard ? Chances are they are on a short journey, and will be pulling off in a mile or two. If someone overtakes them dangerously, chances are they'll know the phone number of their local police station, know the name of the policemen there, know the roads you are driving on, where you are likely to be heading, how long it will take to get there etc. They are also a lot more likely to get upset about what they perceive to be dangerous driving on their local roads. Treat them with respect and don't drive aggressively behind them and they'll think nothing about if you do find a suitable spot to overtake, and in fact they may even assist by indicating left when they come to a spot they know it's safe to overtake at.

When overtaking, don't continue accelerating into the distance (especially if you have a loud exhaust). If you pass them comfortably and then don't disappear into the distance immediately, it's lets the drivers who have just been passed think that you are only going marginally faster than they were. Instead wait until you have gone around a few corners (which you take at higher speeds than them) and then pick up the pace again when you are a good distance ahead.

If you have a loud exhaust, keep throttle/revs to a minimum when passing cars, approaching or leaving villages (usually lift off a good mile or two before the village, and 1/2 mile on leaving). On a quiet summers day, people in their gardens can hear you coming (and going) for a few miles in either direction. Give them plenty of notice and they'll be watching at their garden wall with mobile phone and digital camera in hand. On this same subject, if you see people in gardens/farms/walking by the side of the road, slow down and pass quietly, even if you aren't breaking the speed limit or have a quiet/standard exhaust. It lets these people know that you have seen them and you are being considerate towards them. In 90% of cases, you'll get friendly waves, which is infinitely better than shouts of abuse!

If you can see from the road signs that you are only 2 or 3 miles from a village/town, then don't try to overtake the cars in front. Instead, chill out and relax for a few minutes. There's a good chance that one or more of the cars in front will stop/pull off in the village saving you and the other cars in your group the problem of passing them It also means you'll arrive and depart the village discretely.

The organiser of a day/weekend out like this should take care to check for example that there aren't any events in the area for the planned date. For example, we were once caught out by a horse event, and some spent large parts of the day stuck behind horse trailers coming to/from the event. Watch out for village fairs, local cycle races, 10k fun runs, or even a nearby motorsport event.

Take note of the time of year and the time of day. At this time of year, there's good daylight until at least 10pm, and probably 11pm further north. Even though it's peak tourist season, most rural roads are virtually deserted after 6:30pm as everyone is home, in the bar/restaurant having their dinner and settling down to watch TV for example. Some times of the day (e.g. mid Sunday morning) are especially busy with people travelling to church. If you can avoid these times, you give yourself a much better chance of having empty roads and a lot of fun. Avoid bank holiday weekends (and generally any time the schools are on holiday) if you can. We've tried it many times and you just end up frustrated at volumes of slower traffic and long convoys

When taking part in an event of this nature, always remember the many long hours/days/weeks that the organiser has put into the smooth running. Why risk all their hard work to save a few seconds by only just overtaking a car safely, especially if you know you are going to be stopping 5 to 10 miles along the road. Just think of your own circumstances (what effect would it have on your family/job if you got banned for dangerous driving), or the reputation of the club/organisers and other people taking part.

The above things may sound like it's taking a lot of the fun out of things, but if it means you can enjoy a fast run on the quieter stretches for 85% of your run, without any police intervention or annoying other motorists then it's a good thing. It's much better to have many good runs, than one or two "fantastic" ones where everyone was lucky to escape "unwanted attention" or have close shaves, only to be clamped down on hard for all future runs. Over the past few years, a few of us have continued to do these sort of events, but it's almost always done in small private local groups and not published anywhere. Notification is by word of mouth at local meets/events, email etc so as not to attract unwanted attention. By developing/sticking to the above guidelines, we've enjoyed many thousands of miles of fast, safe driving in groups over the past few years, and long may it continue

John

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Quality post John and I fully agree........we can kiss goodbye to our beloved runs unless we collectively tidy up our act.

[Gumball]

I am not necessarily swaying towards either side of the fence here.

The points listed are very very sensible and reading through once you can see what the object of the mission is. To ensure safer standards across the board on the organised runs.

I am concerned that other than all the very critical ideas to ensure a safe, sensible and law abiding run, the only thing i wouldnt enjoy is having to be set in a group of 4 cars. Would the faster groups be set at the back? or the front? would they be set at the front and never see anyone again throughout the day? would they go at the back and end up overtaking other groups, causing the situation were trying to avoid? would they have to wait at a lunchstop for 60mins before people arrived?

How easy is it to organise as an event leader to have 12 x groups of 4 cars all setting off at intervals in various directions finishing the same location?

Is there not scope anymore for everyone agreeing to drive sensibly and still convoy together throughout the day?

Im not (for once) trying to be funny. I just love these runs that we have and believe that if we all stick to general guidelines and rules, we can still have the same format with the same safety results. This being no injuries, speeding tickets and continual happy drivers.

Everyone sticks to their set position in the convoy and doesnt overtake any other subarus would reduce the need for civilian phonecalls to the commissioners red phone.

[phil]

Thanks John

Quality

[kennyi]

Quality post John, I think I remember you posting something similar on Scottish_Elises not so long ago.

We (Type R Scotland) have our 3rd annual Tour d'Ecosse coming up next month which is based on the SIDC and Elise runs up north. Since Jan 2004 we have been pointing people in the direction of Scottish Elises Convoy Etiquette which I believe was originally (or a version of anyway) created by the SIDC.

[st3ph3n]

Top stuff John.

Good sensible information that can be applied to every day driving on country roads too, and not just for group outings.

[TheGza]

Some great advice there - and plenty to think about even if I'm out and about on my own

[the squiggle]

I can understand why you have posted such a thread

Sorry but i dont have the required brain power to conform to these new "guidelines" and may have to rope in someone of superior intellect.

It is truly a wonder how we have managed 5 runs in all areas of the country and not killed or maimed anyone.

Grant

[johns]

Thanks for the feedback

Kenny is indeed correct in that much of the above post was written many years ago, and 95% of it was posted on the Scottish Elises mailing list a few months ago. I had been planning to update it for some time, and did so whilst off on holiday for a couple of weeks. They are not formal rules that must be adhered to, I'm just passing on the experience many of us have gained over the years. If people want to do their own thing, then they are more than free to do so.

The guideline about groups of no more than 4 evolved over a period of a few runs. Originally we started off with the bigger convoy approach which worked fine and was great fun. I think we did about 5 or 6 runs like this at meets across the country. However there were a few drawbacks with it. We found that the convoy got split up frequently, as some drivers didn't feel safe to overtake without seeing a clear road ahead (eg if 5 or 6 cars ahead had overtaken, some drivers would wait until cars ahead had all pulled back in to make sure the road was clear for them to pass also). This delay often frustrated drivers behind who had been watching ahead and could see the road was clear but they couldn't pass until the car in front had done so. This led to people at the rear often missing out on perfectly good opportunities, or in some cases taking higher risks to pass in order to keep up. This in turn annoyed the cars being passed, who could become obstructuve to following cars. We then tried the approach of keeping going until the next scheduled stop, and not trying to reform the convoy. What we discovered is that groups of 3 to 5 cars can make much better progress and enjoy themselves for a much higher proportion of the time, especially those at the front who were constantly slowing down and waiting for others to catch up. Those in following groups felt much less pressure to overtake at the earliest opportunity, and correspondingly enjoyed things a lot more also. They were able to "see" the road ahead much more clearly and enjoy the drive a lot more, rather than simply following the long line of cars in front.

We then discovered the other big bonus of stopping at smaller rural petrol stations with only one or two SUL pumps. Smaller groups don't cause any chaos, and people aree in and out in under 10 minutes. With a big group, you get queues sometimes spilling onto the roads. With the next group following 5 - 10 minutes behind, there was still plenty time to exchange stories between groups as they filled up and headed off again. In a bigger group, those at the front would often have to park up for 30 minutes whilst those at the rear filled up. This also meant some locals had to wait 30 - 40 minutes for fuel, despite the diesel pumps being unused for an hour

The same thing happened when stopping at pubs for lunch etc. Most kitchens cope fine with cooking meals for tables of 5 to 10 people at once. They tend to struggle with larger groups, and you end up getting long delays for food and then you have the problems of paying at the end, as the pubs prefer to have the one bill for payment, and you have the problems of people saying "I only had a portion of chips, whilst he had a fillet steak with all the trimmings, why shoudl I pay for a portion of his meal" and so on. Arriving in smaller groups meant that they could order, get served and pay easily, and not have to wait for 45 minutes whilst the rest of the convoy finished lunch etc. The end result if that everyone has a lot more time for driving, and still more than plenty of time for chat over lunch etc We did try the pre-ordering food thing once, but it wasn't a huge success, as two people on one table would get their food first, and the others on their table might have to wait 5 to 10 minutes etc., as it wasn't possible to order the food by table in advance.

I think perhaps in the earlier days (we are talking 7 - 8 years ago now!), we had a few owners who were trying to prove to the others that they were the best/fastest driver, or had the most modified car and hence should be at the front etc. I honestly don't believe we have the same problem today, hence the success and safe record of some convoy type runs over the past year or two

Over another few runs, people naturally went in groups where they knew how the others drove (style, safety etc), and generally things were much more enjoyable for everyone. The next stage was when some of the faster drivers wanted to do a slightly longer route, and they would look at the maps and take an extra detour for some parts (e.g. an extra 10 - 20 mile loop). The end result was that they drove more (which they wanted), and everyone arrived at the destination around the same time. On later events, we deliberately looked for routes where an optional extra leg or two was possible and gave people the choice. If they were ahead of schedule they could do the extra bits, if they spent a long time over coffee at the previous stop, then they could take the shorter route, or even a short cut.

The end result was that everyone started off the day together as a group, met up as a group over various stops and finished the day together, albeit some arriving 20 minutes or so behind those first to get to the destination. Everyone drove at the speed they wanted to, for a distance that suited them and with drivers they felt comfortable with. There was also much less flashing of lights, sounding of horns etc from other drivers on the road.

With regards to the question of whether faster of slower groups should go first - it all depends on the drivers and the routes. We used to mix things up, and if one group caught another on the road, then the leading group would pull over or slow down and let the following group past. We tended not to have named groups such as fast, medium or slow, as everyone likes to think they are a fast driver but there are big differences in driver abilities. We had group 1, group 2 and so on. At scheduled stopping points, people could swap groups if they wanted to if the group they were in drove too fast or slow for their liking. Typically though, the faster drivers would go towards the end, as over the distance between stops, they could make up a bit more time. If they went first, then they could wait a long time for the last group to appear, never see anyone etc.

Finally, it wasn't an easy task to organise an event where you have lots of groups taking different routes at different times etc. I think I spent several days effort over a period of a few months working everything out, planning food stops, petrols stations etc. We even managed to persuade one remote petrol station to specifically get in stocks of SUL/Optimax for us for the weekend!

Hope you all have safe and fun driving this summer

John

[Gumball]

Is this whats going to happen from now on? I frequently, on a weekly basis at least run with another 3 cars.

So now with this new format.....whats the difference between a normal middle of the road (excuse the pun) and a motnhly/2 monthly organised event where we all go as one big group? and have a fantastic day where you KNOW your on an SIDC run.

There were 50 cars on the last run. wheres the feedback/opinion from the other 46 drivers???????????????????????????????? or doesnt it matter either way?

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

At the risk of sounding like an muppet re: fast drivers........

Some people think they are going fast but aren't as fast as they actually perceive themselves...

Example - Nailing it on the straights then braking like fury for a corner...........I did a small experiment

last time I was out on a SIDC run and barely used my brakes but managed to easily keep up with the driver

in front. Of course they're are varying levels of ablity and the Impreza makes you feel like the Stig.

Overall pace over a stretch of road is more pleasurable and rewarding than hitting xxx mph ( IMHO)

I don't confess to being an expert but I've done around 6 defensive / fast road training sessions.

Even with only 30 mins on B-roads with these instructors you'll learn heaps. You'd also be surprised by the

amount of fuel you save. The motto is "slow in and fast out" whilst trying not to upset the weight

distribution of the car and make a clean exit from the corner....

All in my own opinion though ...........

Cal

[Power Junkie]

Cal That sounds a bit like IAM Advanced driving It is well worth doing the course and only costs £80

[kennyi]

<< At the risk of sounding like an muppet re: fast drivers........

Some people think they are going fast but aren't as fast as they actually perceive themselves...

Cal >>

I dont think the fast group is neccessarily the group maintaining the highest average speed, more like the group interesting in finding out of the way B-roads to explore over the entire route compared to the slow group who in the meantime are having a wee chat and taking piccies of the scenery.

Drving fast doesnt have to mean driving 100mph everywhere. Remember the original TRS run up Ullapool way in 2003, apart from the Ferrari 360 moment the speeds were fast but safe and sensible the whole way.

[Gumball]

thats another issue. driving fast or not driving fast. who can do it well, who cannot etc etc etc.

feedback from people on what they think without being categorised is the way forward here so freely folk can say what they think without being judged ie...

GUMBALL- likes the convoy idea= hes a fast driver/lunatic

STI_JOHN-likes the idea of smaller groups= he likes to take his time/top guy

as an example!!

this is what i thought we should avoid. bracketing folk due to their opinion on this subject?

[johns]

Chris,

no-one is saying that this is a new format that must be adhered to - I'm simply passing on the benefit of experience as we're in the middle of the season where there are many regional events taking place and probably plenty of small runs organised. The big difference between your daily/weekly runs with a few others is that on bigger events run in this way is that you'll meet everyone for an hour or more at the start of the event, most people at lunchtime and everyone at the end again. In between, you'll drive faster, probably further and may well have more fun than if you were in the middle of a big group (it can be scary to be near the end actually!). If you are at an event and everyone wants to drive in one group then that's fine (it's great to have a huge turn-out of cars together ), but it can cause some logistical problems which can take the edge off (long periods of waiting around doing nothing) what otherwise is a fantastic day for most people. It's also much easier on the organiser, as they are only "responsible" for a small group, and not 40 - 50 cars for most of the day.

Cal - spot on. We had someone at an event quite a few years back who boasted about how good he was, how he was going to leave everyone behind etc. Turns out he was a real liability, some very dodgy overtaking with some near head-ons. If he got left behind in a group, he would pull some stupid moves to keep up, and do things like 60mph through a 30 zone just to try and catch up. When leading a group, he would pull the same moves and drive very aggresively behind cars making it a nightmare for anyone following to overtake anything without getting abuse. Thing was, when the road was clear of traffic, the others following could keep up with ease through the corners and thought the pace was very relaxed...

John

[Gumball]

John

I see your point.

[the squiggle]

So whens the next TDE John, bearing in mind fuel is nearly 95p a litre and Shell stations are few and far between.

From the feedback on the last 4 runs, the general consensus was that they were well thought out with an excellent choice of roads, ideal gaps between stops, toilet facilities, etc, etc and that people thought the expense of the fuel was worth it.

The reason i have never adopted the 4/6 cars at a time rule was the experience of the Type R Scotland run in Jan of this year. After we left the Stirling starting point we never saw any other members of the run the entire day. Although a top day with an excellent choice of roads we felt a tad isolated at the end in Pitlochry

I have not used the different roads in different directions idea as all the printing of the 30+ page map/booklet and the fuel used in the recce come out of my own pocket. To make up a route map with 4 different routes on it would be a daunting task. At the moment with the current idea the construction of the map book takes a full day with Imy on the PC and to inc an extra 3 routes would be a task too far

The criteria i have used when arranging the previous runs are.

Choice of roads must have a bit of everything

Under 200 miles, as this is about how much a Scooby will do at cruising pace

Large car park with toilet facilities every 60/70 miles

Avoid heavily populated areas

Every route map i have printed has my mobile number on both Orange and O2 in case of emergencies.

Any notable hazards, blind hairpin, poor road surface, populer police speed trap area, etc, etc are noted on the map

Please allow me to send yourself a copy of map booklet on our previous runs to give you an idea of the effort put into these runs we have been enjoying for the past while.

Grant

[micra_wrc]

John,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

TBH, each format has its own merits, pros and cons,

i.e. the smaller group format will work if 'group leaders' know each of the routes; the convoy format works as there is a reduced chance of veering off the route if you can see everyone else.

It is up to each individual driver to decide what they want from the day and therefore how fast to drive.

Although we have settled on the convoy format for our runs, we have found that cars naturally break up into smaller groups due to the conditions on the roads (other traffic etc) and is quite manageable.

Imy

[imprezapete]

I have to agree with Grant and Imy, the time that 4-6 route take to plan is to much. Also you run the risk of people being too broken up or getting lost.

To top that off you just dont get the group run feeling from running around in small groups.

I think better planning or routes and monitoring of incidents or issues can help deflate any issues with runs.

I do agree on the drivers 'Etiquette' idea, its nice to be nice at the end of the day.

[johns]

Grant,

I apologise if my posts have come across in the wrong way, but in no way was I attempting to criticise the excellent events that you have run in the past and are planning for the future. Having organised many of these in the past, I fully appreciate the time, effort and cost it takes to do the recce, route calculations, printing of maps etc.

Next TDE - perhaps later this year. The main reasons there hasn't been one for the past few years is lack of time on my part to plan and organise, due to a) a change in jobs which involved longer hours, work at evenings/weekends etc, moving house last year and c) lack of time and money due to a and b!

Regards the printing of maps etc., what I've done in the past is to issue them to "trusted" people who have taken part in one or two previous events so they can a) print their own maps and have a day or two to familiarise themselves with the route/directions/junctions/stopping points etc. That way if groups do get split up, then there's a good chance that someone will know where to go, without having to stop at a junction for a minute or two working out where they are on the map and where to go to next.

Cheers

John

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Folks - worth reading John's note before heading out on the photoshoot run ........

Take care, stay safe and watch out for ice in the shadows and hollows

Cal