Somethings Wrong..

[Smiler AS]

Yep, certainly worth look.

It will prb be weekend before I get a chance, Il look out the fuel pump/filter and how to I check the relay?

All I know so fas is it a found metal thing at passenger footwell (but I havent actually looked it out yet).

Cheers for all the effort and replies guys, really appreciated.

When it didnt start at all on Sat I was freaking out thinking something huge had went, but now engine starts (even if its only for 20 secs) the engine sounds fine.

I had heard that the fuel circuit is seperate from the the engine ecu circuit - possible reason why no CEL light.

Cheers again.

[colin_ross]

I've had the same problem, it was the fuel pump.

It was easy for me to diagnose because I have a fuel pressure gauge. It gave out on me at a set of lights one day (only time my car has ever broken down) but at the time I didn't know if the lack of pressure was due to a gubbed pump, injector or fpr.

Pulled the plugs to see if I had a cylnder full of fuel - nope.

Swapped out the reg - still the same.

I did the pump last because it was the biggest pita to do and because I could still hear it prime when I switched on the ignition. It would build a little pressure bit nowhere near what it should and then the pressure would drop away to zero withing a second or 2. Fitted an old pump and she fired right up.

What type of fpr do you have, does it have a spare port to fit a pressure gauge? If so bang one on and rule out the fuel system as the symptoms make me think that will be the prime suspect.

[Smiler AS]

I've had the same problem, it was the fuel pump.

It was easy for me to diagnose because I have a fuel pressure gauge. It gave out on me at a set of lights one day (only time my car has ever broken down) but at the time I didn't know if the lack of pressure was due to a gubbed pump, injector or fpr.

Pulled the plugs to see if I had a cylnder full of fuel - nope.

Swapped out the reg - still the same.

I did the pump last because it was the biggest pita to do and because I could still hear it prime when I switched on the ignition. It would build a little pressure bit nowhere near what it should and then the pressure would drop away to zero withing a second or 2. Fitted an old pump and she fired right up.

What type of fpr do you have, does it have a spare port to fit a pressure gauge? If so bang one on and rule out the fuel system as the symptoms make me think that will be the prime suspect.

Dont have a fpr fitted, Andy F said didnt need it with the 2.5 (didnt ask exactly why).

Going by what you are describing, sounds similar, the car is running on the fuel pressure built up when turning the key to ACC then running off that initial pressure for 20secs then slowly the revs drop and dies (ie . like its being starved of fuel).

Quick question, but why would the fuel pump be ok every time I pre start (ie clicks, and builds up pressure prior to starting engine) , then fail after the engine has started.

Have pm'd ScoUK / Al to see if he has diagnostic sstuff, after all he mapped his car himself.

[cullenmin]

Have pm'd ScoUK / Al to see if he has diagnostic sstuff, after all he mapped his car himself.

I have texted him about this post for you Aaron

Rich

[Smiler AS]

I have texted him about this post for you Aaron

Rich

Cheers bud, he has just text me and sorting out which evening to pop by.

Cant say how much the help and ideas im getting are really appreciated - physically for the car and mentally for me!!

[Smiler AS]

I have had a suggestion form a "semi" mechanic, just to rule out MAF sensor, that if I unplug it and start car, and will run rough but should be able to keep it going by feathering throttle?? This true, would just be another item for me to tick off.

Would have thought a MAF would throw up CEL light though.

[scouk]

Cheers bud, he has just text me and sorting out which evening to pop by.

Will head roudn tonight at about 6ish... will send ya message if any different

[Big 'D']

I have had a suggestion form a "semi" mechanic, just to rule out MAF sensor, that if I unplug it and start car, and will run rough but should be able to keep it going by feathering throttle?? This true, would just be another item for me to tick off.

Would have thought a MAF would throw up CEL light though.

It should run without the MAF unplugged if the MAF is the issue but as it idles ok for a bit it certainly does not sound like the usual MAF issue, ScoUK will see you right

Cheers Iain

[colin_ross]

Dont have a fpr fitted, Andy F said didnt need it with the 2.5 (didnt ask exactly why).

Going to be a pendant here but you do have one, just not an aftermarket adjustable one. They rarely fail but won't have a spare port to tap a gauge into.

Quick question, but why would the fuel pump be ok every time I pre start (ie clicks, and builds up pressure prior to starting engine) , then fail after the engine has started.

Dunno. The nrv on mine went so it was unable to hold any pressure it built up.

When you pull of a fuel line it should spray out for a second (normally right in your face) due to the pressure in the system. Did this happen or did just a little fuel dribble out? No pressure means no spray from the injectors.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Playsatan2

[Smiler AS]

Just been home for few checks,

So done the usual, started ok, runs for a bit then dies.

- I pulled the MAF, started same, ran lumpy and cut out even quicker and CEL came on.

Put back in MAF and started and held better / smoother for the 20sec then slowly died.

So MAF ok.

- I managed to get the connector to the Crankshaft Sensor pulled (below the alternator), tried to start but nothing at all, just the starter motor trying and trying.

Put it back in and same as above, started, 20sec held smoothly then slowlydies.

So that sensor should be ok if the car didnt want to start at all without it.

Think I might have also flooded it a bit with the amount of cranking too, should dry out before Al comes round tonight.

You guys with your bets on the fuel pump / filter could be right.

Might put in uprated plugs too, if i can get at them! Std. plugs on 340bhp WRX maybe possibly a bit of a strain.

[Smiler AS]

When you pull of a fuel line it should spray out for a second (normally right in your face) due to the pressure in the system. Did this happen or did just a little fuel dribble out? No pressure means no spray from the injectors.

The fuel did come out a dribble when I pulled the hose off intially after non starting, not pressure sprayed though, this was with engine off and had been off for a while by then though.

I did pull off a fuel hose and when I went to ACC with the key, could hear click and pump going and it filled up a jar quickly about 1/2 inch.

Was too scared to start car to see if fuel still kept coming - wasnt sure how much there would be.

If it was to come out at even more pressure and faster, I would have needed a bigger jar.

Does the same amount of fuel still come out as it does on the ACC on position?

[colin_ross]

What you've got is flow, what you need is pressure. No way to test that with an open system, it need a pressure gauge to be sure.

[Smiler AS]

What you've got is flow, what you need is pressure. No way to test that with an open system, it need a pressure gauge to be sure.

What part of the system tells how much fuel to pump through / keep pressure?

Is it the crankshaft sensor tells something, or does it tell the plugs when to spark in time?

-----

Its ok, got it, the EGI module Electonic Gasoline Injection unit, located at rear of car.

Not that anyway, im just reading up (or trying to) on the fuel system and how it works.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Smiler AS

[Big 'D']

What part of the system tells how much fuel to pump through / keep pressure?

Is it the crankshaft sensor tells something, or does it tell the plugs when to spark in time?

Fuel pressure is contolled by the fuel pressure regulator at the end of the fuel rail, have you tried listening to see if the pump stops before the engine does yet?

The fuel system usually holds pressure for a huge amount of time so you should really get a spray out if the pump/pressure reg are working ok. As you only get a dribble once the car has stopped this point to the fuel delivery being insufficient either from the pump or if the pressure reg has perhaps failed open (yet another option). I would stick with the pump for now though, it could either be an electrical issue or the filter bag may have come off the pump in the tank etc.

Defo try and listen to the pump to see if you can hear a change in noise or it stopping whilst the engine is running.

Cheers Iain

[Smiler AS]

Well, big thank you to Al / ScoUK for popping round with his laptop, software and cable (didnt realise how easy the software was to get hold of and seemingly a USB to OBD cable is quite cheap too - but thats for another post - where to get the cable).

Anyway, 3 codes, MAF, Crankshaft position sensor and intake temp - but these were from earlier on in the day when I unplugged them and tried starting the car to see if I could rule them out or not from being faulty.

So wiped the codes, took a few tries to start then caught an actually ran perfect for its longest period, well over a minute with engine sounding spot on.

Then the usual, slowly revs dropped and coughed and died.

Still no codes - so engine fine.

All bets are now on the fuel pump and something dodgy there.

Have ordered a new one and will fit on Sat - not a job I fancy doing in dark nights outside during the week.

Im actually a bit relieved that there are no codes and engine is fine, I just need to concentrate on the fuel supply side of things.

Will keep all you updated of course and big big thank you to all those with their thoughts and ideas.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Smiler AS

[Smiler AS]

Fuel pressure is contolled by the fuel pressure regulator at the end of the fuel rail, have you tried listening to see if the pump stops before the engine does yet?

The fuel system usually holds pressure for a huge amount of time so you should really get a spray out if the pump/pressure reg are working ok. As you only get a dribble once the car has stopped this point to the fuel delivery being insufficient either from the pump or if the pressure reg has perhaps failed open (yet another option). I would stick with the pump for now though, it could either be an electrical issue or the filter bag may have come off the pump in the tank etc.

Defo try and listen to the pump to see if you can hear a change in noise or it stopping whilst the engine is running.

Cheers Iain

TBH, I cant hear anyone speaking let alone fuel pump when engine is going - even more so in a small blockwork garage.

I pushed it into the garage with a little help from a few other people.

So it can stay there till weekend and il roll it out again, will try and listen to fuel pump better then, but il probably replace it while im in there - easy to get to on a wagon.

Cheers for the info.

[kairawrx]

When the cam sensor turned dodgy on my GC8 WRX, it always ran fine when it was running, but sometimes it would just never start at all. Often had to park it up a hill as it would bumpstart just fine, but would never go off the key. Also - it never showed a CEL, but it did show up on a self-diagnostic.

Mate of mine bought an Evo-6 TME, which started having problems with some sort of electronic driver aid or other, and when he tried a diagnostic, he found that the previous owner had removed the CEL bulb from the dash

Must say I'm very impressed with the level of support and input people get here. Just wish I'd found this 6 years ago when I started driving WRXs...

[Smiler AS]

Update, got fuel pump changed and just as I was away to put back in assembly, some fuel dribbled out of the billet / large egg shaped thin above the fuel pump, from what I can guess it was a in tank filter. Anyway noticed the rubber o-ring seal that had sealed the unit had popped out and fuel dribbling out. Any way took it apart, set the o-ring in properly and tightened up the unit again. Fitted the new fuel pump anyway. Looked like with the o-ring not forming a seal, pressure was being lost in the system, with fuel coming out the leaky filter and back into tank.

Everthing back in and she started first time! Happy Days!

However , the car started and up 2000rpm fine than as it started to warm up and settle into idle, she started feeling slightly lumpy, not major - more like the exhaust was farting spitting at me at just tickover, she will rev up ok. No smoke or anything like that. Just the farting and spitting.

Wondering if I have not tightened up one of spark plugs right, one of them was a bi**ch and socket almost got jammed in hole.

It was maybe suggested that the white cermaic looking part of the plug may have fractured?

Would a fractured or slightly loose plug cause farting and spitting at the exhaust with slight lumpiness to engine?

Its not as loud or as bad as a misfire, that I do know.

PS. All those who had the fuel pump (assembly) faulty were indeed correct. Big Thank You

Edited February 20, 2010 by Smiler AS

[colin_ross]

Certainly sounds like it's running on 3. Start with the things you've touched like the plugs and the leads and take it from there.

You could pull one lead at a time (with the car not running) and see if it stays the same ot gets worse. If it stays the same you've found the culprit.

[Smiler AS]

Havent put in the new plugs yet. Ive got them though.

If the farting and spitting from the exhaust is signs of a dodgy plug- Ive got a fair idea which plug is the culprit - the one where I got the socket stuck somehow (below battery), it may have fravtured the head as I was trying to get socket out.

Il need to have a look for videos, guides, how to's on changing plugs - it cant be as hard as i'm making it out to be - surely!?

Are the plugs set horizontal, ie. 90 deg in or are they on the angle within the block?

Almost there anyway. Im sure she is just sulking because I had a look (and a wee shot) of a Ford Kuga with the 2.5 Turbo engine.

[Smiler AS]

Ok, looked at the car again today.

Got one spark plug out and changed fine - no probs.

Moved on to the next one and for the life of me I couldnt get the socket to take to the spark plug.

Getting a bit annoyed that you cant see into the damn hole I held my phone down and took a pic.

Not the best quality but as you can see the white ceramic part of the plug and has come off in bits and wasnt allowing my socket to get in and grab the plug.

So after 3/4 hour with a tiny headed screwdriver and a bit of sucking, managed to slide the loose bits out and get the socket on to get the plug out.

Old and busted with new hotness!

Duly replaced and she is running perfect now, if not slightly better...wonder if there was a hairline fracture in the plug for a while?

Anyway happy man again and big thanks to all those helping with suggestions, views and opinions - much appreciated.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Smiler AS

[scouk]

Wow! thats quite something! not heard of that happeenign before.. I guess if it somehow became hot enough the ceramic would become brittle and fizzle away

Great to hear all is sorted now!

[Smiler AS]

Cheers bud, plus big ta for popping out with the diagnostic the other night too.

Although no codes - that actually made me feel better.

Yep, bit of a freak one the spark plug!? I hope.

Spent a while sucking all the small bits out of the spark plug hole with a collection of straws too, just to be sure! lol!

Hope you are making good head way with yours too?

Edited February 27, 2010 by Smiler AS

[scouk]

Spent a while sucking all the small bits out of the spark plug hole with a collection of straws too, just to be sure! lol!

Good job! Dont want any of that stuff going through the engine! Must'ave been damn awkward to get in there to clear it out!

No problem about the code reading.. Always nice to know there's nothing lurking around.. Not every error shows as CEL...

Hope you are making good head way with yours too?

Well that's the snow cleared away after 3 months.. Had a look today to see whats involved with removign teh diff.. OMG! That's not an easy driveway job!! Goign to try a few more trial n' error attempts at re-installing the drive shaft lock ring from the outside tomorrow..

[colin_ross]

You could have saved yourself a bit of hassel and just blasted the bits out with an airline (as long as the plug was still in to stop it gong in the hole).

Glad it all worked out in the end plus now you know your car a bit better.