Found A P P G Gearbox (well Playsatan2 Did!)

[thewelsho]

Hi Guys

G.T. put me onto this eBay item (Item number: 270241180142) which is a 54plate STi gearbox and I thought it was worth hitting the overdraft for! The seller claims it has done only 7k. It comes with electronic DCCD control, flywheel, clutch, mounts and propshaft. Questions are as follows:

1) Will it fit and if not, what else do I need? (MY06 WRX - Hawkeye)

2) The other stuff coming with the box (clutch etc.) do I need it?

3) If I was commited to buying it, is there anyone who would come with me to look at it as I don't have a clue what to look for. The guy could be selling me a bag of spanners and I woudln't know.

4) Much could I get for my own fully reconditioned GB that has done 2K?

5) Would I be able to make use of the DCCD given that the STi has a dash-display that would make use of this?

Sorry for all the questions, but its only because I'm so useless with this stuff!

Thanks for any help offered

Edited June 4, 2008 by TheWelsho

[AlanG]

1: Yes, diff? gear linkage? gearknob?

2: clutch is useful as it's a bigger diameter than what you have

3: Nope and probably can't tell just by looking externally

4: At a guess, £3-400?

5: Yes, just use the thumbwheel, you don't need a light display

[thewelsho]

  AlanG said:

1: Yes, diff? gear linkage? gearknob?

2: clutch is useful as it's a bigger diameter than what you have

3: Nope and probably can't tell just by looking externally

4: At a guess, £3-400?

5: Yes, just use the thumbwheel, you don't need a light display

Thanks Alan. Given what you said on point 1, I'd be as well to leave it until someone comes along with everything at once. No telling how long it would take me to track down the other items and at what cost. I sent the guy a question through eBay so I will wait till he comes back to me and see what he says re the diff, gear linkage and knob.

Thanks again.

J

[AlanG]

It may be that you don't need the diff John, you'd need to find out what diff ratio is in that car and what is in yours.

[colin_ross]

Also you need to consider the effect of mating s relatively short revving engine with a gearbox that was intended for a high revving one.

Subaru lengthened the ratio's when they went to the 2.5 to make it a better match. Would you be happy with the results of mating the two?

[thewelsho]

  AlanG said:

It may be that you don't need the diff John, you'd need to find out what diff ratio is in that car and what is in yours.

He mailed me back to say its 99% sold, so that's that!

  Playsatan2 said:

Also you need to consider the effect of mating s relatively short revving engine with a gearbox that was intended for a high revving one.

Subaru lengthened the ratio's when they went to the 2.5 to make it a better match. Would you be happy with the results of mating the two?

Sorry, don't know that means mate. I am assuming that you mean the gear ratios are shorter which would mean I'd not make it into the red before having to change, no?

Thanks again for the advice though. At least I have talked the good lady around into letting me spend more cash on the car. She was asking me about PPG and what that meant and suggesting that that would be the better option. But by the time I bought it and got it fitted, I doubt I'd have any change out of 4k. For what Iam doing with the car, I think PPG is a bit heavy handed. Ach well, one day...

[st3ph3n]

With shorter ratios your engine will still rev the same John, you'll just not be travelling as fast per RPM.

[thewelsho]

  st3ph3n said:

With shorter ratios your engine will still rev the same John, you'll just not be travelling as fast per RPM.

Is that bad? Currently my VF38 kicks in at 3100; would it still do that and would it still have the same effect?

[terzo neil]

is it 6 speed or 5 speed box

if 6 speed you will need the clutch and flywheel as well, maybe front shafts, prop gear linkage, plus maybe other bits

[thewelsho]

  Terzo Neil said:

is it 6 speed or 5 speed box

if 6 speed you will need the clutch and flywheel as well, maybe front shafts, prop gear linkage, plus maybe other bits

6 Speed. Its off of a MY05 STi. Its sold anyway by the looks of it. Probably wouldn't buy it though as there is just too much stuff that I don't know. I'd end up buying the wrong thing and be stuck with it.

[st3ph3n]

  TheWelsho said:

Is that bad? Currently my VF38 kicks in at 3100; would it still do that and would it still have the same effect?

John, the engine will still have the same profile mate. Attaching a gearbox wont affect engine performance as such. It will affect the performance on the road though.

[terzo neil]

whats in yours just now

5 or 6 speed

[thewelsho]

  Terzo Neil said:

whats in yours just now

5 or 6 speed

MY06 WRX - 5-speed

I see the guy that was on SN selling his PPG gearbox appears to still have it, unless he hasn't posted up that its sold. Its a 1995 WRX 5-speed

Edited June 3, 2008 by TheWelsho

[colin_ross]

  st3ph3n said:

John, the engine will still have the same profile mate. Attaching a gearbox wont affect engine performance as such. It will affect the performance on the road though.

Stephen is correct John. The power and torque curve of your car will not change but if you fit a gearbox with shorter gears you will be changing up sooner and you will be running out of revs quicker. On a high revving car this is less of an issue but on a lower revving car such as a 2.5 you'll find yourself changing gear much more often.

Let me put it this way, when Andy F changed from a 2.0 to a 2.5 in his spec c he itched the 6 speeder and fitted a 5 speed ppg. It just suits the engine better.

[st3ph3n]

I know the 6 speed box is sturdier, but that's obviously as it was built with the extra power in mind, but I've never really seen the need for extra gears on road cars. This isn't a Subaru thing either. How many of these luke warm hot hatches and super minis come with a gearbox that you'll be forever stirring? When they're busy changing gears I'll be enjoying a spot of torque down the rev range.

How if you give me a Supercar it's a different story ....

[thewelsho]

  st3ph3n said:

I know the 6 speed box is sturdier, but that's obviously as it was built with the extra power in mind, but I've never really seen the need for extra gears on road cars. This isn't a Subaru thing either. How many of these luke warm hot hatches and super minis come with a gearbox that you'll be forever stirring? When they're busy changing gears I'll be enjoying a spot of torque down the rev range.

How if you give me a Supercar it's a different story ....

I see, but I don't mind changing gears. Couldn't I just skip gears like 1st to 3rd 3rd to 5th etc. Also, isn't short-ratio gearboxes an important feature of a sports car? Take the RA for example. The shorter the ratios the the faster the accelaration, no? The bottom line though is not the extra gears but the stronger box, that's really all I want.

I found this on a Tech-spec sheet on the WRX MY06

"5 speed manual transmission (auto transmission no longer available) uses 8 bell housing bolts for improved rigidity, and cold forging and shot peen hardening process is used on gears to improve durability compared to MY05 unit.

It is still however nowhere near as strong as the STi 6 speed transmissions!

"

[thewelsho]

  Playsatan2 said:

Stephen is correct John. The power and torque curve of your car will not change but if you fit a gearbox with shorter gears you will be changing up sooner and you will be running out of revs quicker. On a high revving car this is less of an issue but on a lower revving car such as a 2.5 you'll find yourself changing gear much more often.

Let me put it this way, when Andy F changed from a 2.0 to a 2.5 in his spec c he itched the 6 speeder and fitted a 5 speed ppg. It just suits the engine better.

Colin, when you say a higher revving engine - do you mean an engine that is capable of more RPM?

[RS Grant]

Yea, I think thats what Colin meant.. IIRC, the Blobeye STi will rev to c8k limit and the Hawkeye STi revs to 7k max.

For what its worth, if money was no object, I'd punt my 6-spd set-up and drop in an uprated 5-spd set-up in my car just like Mr F has done. I much prefer the ratios... I really miss the UK 5-spd that I was used to in my old UK Turbos and find myself snatching gears a lot more in the Spec-G with the 6-spd, although the remap has helped as there is a good wave of torque to fall back on when you cant be ar$ed and arent in the mood to 'drive' the car.

Cheers,

Grant

[fai17]

I'm happy with my close ratio in a 2.5L so its horses for courses.

See if you can hold out till a hawkeye STI 6 speeder comes up for sale.

[colin_ross]

  TheWelsho said:

Colin, when you say a higher revving engine - do you mean an engine that is capable of more RPM?

Yes, thats what I mean. Where does your engine start make and decent power/torque and when does it run out of puff? Running a larger engine with a smaller turbo will cause it to run out of steam sooner so think about where the power dies off not where the red line is. With less revs to play with you'll be swapping gears much more often and spending as much time in neutral as you do on the gas.

I know that reliability is your main concern and in that respect any 6'er is a good move but think about drivablity and what you'll be using it for and buy the one that suit your needs best.

[thewelsho]

  Playsatan2 said:

Yes, thats what I mean. Where does your engine start make and decent power/torque and when does it run out of puff?

Well I'd say it starts at 3k jsut before the turbo comes fully online and keeps going up to 6k... I think. Like you say though, it sounds like the 5-speeder is better with the PPG conversion. I had a look at the price of that again and I made a mistake. Its actually 'only' £2300 for the kit plus VAT of course, which takes it up to about £2700. Much cheaper than I originally thought. Dunno what made me think it was £3500 plus VAT. Of course there is the cost of fitting on top of that too. No idea how much that would cost, probably another £500?

[thewelsho]

  fai 17 said:

I'm happy with my close ratio in a 2.5L so its horses for courses.

See if you can hold out till a hawkeye STI 6 speeder comes up for sale.

Yeah, when I drove your car I didn't really feel like I was inconvenienced by excessive gear changes. Mind you, it took me about half an hour to get it off the mark with that freaky clutch set up. Also, the whole experience was too short and I was too focused on not breaking the car to notice anything else to be honest.

Yeah, I suppose I should hold out for a MY06+ 6-speeder, but then again those will be as rare as rocking horse cr4p. I wonder what Mr. F did with his... sold probably.

[colin_ross]

  TheWelsho said:

Well I'd say it starts at 3k jsut before the turbo comes fully online and keeps going up to 6k...

So at a rough guess you've got a 3k rpm fun zone.

The car that gearbox was intended for will make decent power from 3k to 8k so has almost twice the revs to play with meaning it could hold the gear for almost twice as long and be going a third faster when it shifts up.

A gearbox is one of the most expensive things you can do to a car (as if you didn't know) so think about where the car might end up spec wise and do yourself a favour by just buying it once.

[thewelsho]

  Playsatan2 said:

A gearbox is one of the most expensive things you can do to a car (as if you didn't know) so think about where the car might end up spec wise and do yourself a favour by just buying it once.

Yeah, thats a good point - future proofing for future mods and also the reason why I am asking so many questions. Also, if there was some point where I'd want to sell the car, I'm sure it would be more desireable with the forged pistons and gearbox. I really don't see me exceeding the likes of that which Peter is running (or even going anywhere near that). So over 500 bhp plus similiar torque (I'd imagine) on the standard 6-speed seems do-able; so perhaps the STi box is all I'll need, but will keep weighing it up depending on availibilty and finances.

[thewelsho]

  Playsatan2 said:

Yes, thats what I mean. Where does your engine start make and decent power/torque and when does it run out of puff? Running a larger engine with a smaller turbo will cause it to run out of steam sooner so think about where the power dies off not where the red line is. With less revs to play with you'll be swapping gears much more often and spending as much time in neutral as you do on the gas.

I know that reliability is your main concern and in that respect any 6'er is a good move but think about drivablity and what you'll be using it for and buy the one that suit your needs best.

Colin, remember you posted that link to a guy selling his PPG boc on SN? His name is WRXShaneWRX. It's a MY95 WRX with PPG. I PM's him and asked him if he still had it and he said yes, and he said this: yer still got it, if youve got a case the gear$et will fit . I take it he means the actual box, yeah? Does that mean he's jsut selling a bunch of cogs? Link is here

Edited June 4, 2008 by TheWelsho