ABZ- Police Speed Trap - Broomhill Road

[Iaing]

A warning to all the Aberdeen folks who use that road. The police are sitting hiding behind parked cars on the left hand side of the road, before you get to the School (heading towards Anderson drive). Not sure if is a 20 or 30 zone. If its 20 my mates had it. Sneaky buggers are out of the car with a hand held lazer gun, you can't see them until you are passing them.

Iain

[andy]

If it's a 20 with green border signage then it's not enforcable. Red border signage is.

[RA Dunk]

i could be wrong but dont they need to stop you and tell you personally if you been caught, unlike a speed camera or scamera van?

[Iaing]

No I don't think so.

Iain

[craig mac]

i could be wrong but dont they need to stop you and tell you personally if you been caught, unlike a speed camera or scamera van?

Where is there evidence?

A recorded speed on a laser gun? No proof at all is it?

[duncan_stephen]

It wouldn't be too difficult to get out of this one even if they were to follow it up. []

Although they don't actually need any "evidence" as such. Their statement is enough in most courts. (if you take it that far)

With camera van cases, it is the operators statement that is used as the main "evidence" as they must decide that you are breaking the speed limit and then activate the video. Not leave it running all the time. Cough Cough.

But.........................

Normally they will pull you over in your mates situation.

I would say your friend can rest easy on this one.

 

I'm led to believe there is a drive on reducing speeding around schools at the moment.

 

All this is "speculation" of course and I know nothing about it. []

PM if you need help / advice.

[RA Dunk]

Where is there evidence?

A recorded speed on a laser gun? No proof at all is it?

but still enough to get you done though as thats all they need[]

[scooby doom]

Basically, it’s preferable to stop a driver,
show them the recorded speed at the time and give them a verbal Section 1
warning.  However, not stopping the
driver at the time and posting them a NIP within 14 days will do the same trick.  Either way the drivers gubbed unless
they’re delving into the realms of ‘technicality’ i.e. the officers shoes weren’t
tied at the time, they pointed the laser at me in a menacing manner, a swift
draught caught my rear and pushed me faster and the like…

[Iaing]

I may have been wrong saying "lazer" speed detector. It could have been anything hand held also I might add the copper did track him for quite a while after we drove away with whatever he was using.

Fingers crossed my mate was lucky. Time will tell i guess.

Keep an eye on your speed on your way home!

Iain

[scooby doom]

There are a few devices in use but a road side hand held in this area is most likely to be a Muniquip radar gun rather than a laser.

Now for a bit of food for thought.  Many believe only traffic officers can book ya for speeding, sorry wrong answer.  Over the last couple of years a number of beat officers have been trained to use the above device and can use it while out with a dedicated traffic officer or with any other trained beat officer. 

And finally, sometimes speeding is the lesser of two evils.  Obviously all these recording devices do is prove a speed.  If a cop sees ya speeding and can't prove the actual speed but still thinks it was excessive then by weighing up several other factors you could end up with a careless or even dangerous driving charge. That said that also applies to the former, if you're clocked at certain speeds above the posted limits you won't get a speeding ticket either.

[andy]

posting them a NIP within 14 days will do the same trick.

Bzzzzzzt. The NIP must be SERVED within 14 days.

[david_taylor]

There are a few devices in use but a road side hand held in this area is most likely to be a Muniquip radar gun rather than a laser.

Now for a bit of food for thought.  Many believe only traffic officers can book ya for speeding, sorry wrong answer.  Over the last couple of years a number of beat officers have been trained to use the above device and can use it while out with a dedicated traffic officer or with any other trained beat officer. 

And finally, sometimes speeding is the lesser of two evils.  Obviously all these recording devices do is prove a speed.  If a cop sees ya speeding and can't prove the actual speed but still thinks it was excessive then by weighing up several other factors you could end up with a careless or even dangerous driving charge. That said that also applies to the former, if you're clocked at certain speeds above the posted limits you won't get a speeding ticket either.

I read on some Laser Dector site a article on challenging the hand held devices in court, with a good lawer, that it is quite easy to get it thrown out.  Think it was because if the officer is not 100% still it can give an incorrect reading.  The case that highlighted this was the Land Rover done for doing over a 118mph.  It was proven it could not do anything above 80mph.  Tests then proved that this is not at all uncommon, and a stationary car reading came back at 30mph.

Dont know if it would be worth the hastle and cost right enough, but food for thought.

[scooby doom]

posting them a NIP within 14 days will do the same trick.

Bzzzzzzt. The NIP must be SERVED within 14 days.

Unfortunately it doesn't - see Section 2 below.

(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act, where a person is prosecuted

for an offence to which this section applies, he is not to be convicted unless—

(a) he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question

of prosecuting him for some one or other of the offences to which this section

applies would be taken into consideration, or

( within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in

Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or

© within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the

intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time

and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—

(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the [1988 c. 52.] Road Traffic Act

1988 (cycling offences), served on him,

(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if

any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of

the offence.

(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of

subsection (1)© above to have been served on a person if it was sent by

registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known

address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for

any other reason not received by him.

In short - posted whether the driver gets it or not.  While this technacally qualifies as being 'served' I am trying to keep my replies in laymans terms.  Hopefully it will not be necessary to quote from the statutes every time.

[andy]

(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of

subsection (1)© above to have been served on a person if it was sent by

registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known

address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for

any other reason not received by him.

The only force in the UK known to use registered post or recorded delivery for speeding NIPs are Dumfries & Galloway. A little venture onto Pepipoo will show many cases where credible witnesses have proved non-service within the 14-day limit.

In laymans terms "served" = delivered or received. It does not mean posted.

[euan_r]

The only force in the UK known to use registered post or recorded delivery for speeding NIPs are Dumfries & Galloway.

simply not true, i know from experience. []

Ps not intended towards u, but in general, im sure Scoobydoom doesnt want to start talking shop every time he visits these forums.

[andy]

simply not true, i know from experience. []

If other forces are using registered/recorded delivery than that's a first to us Pepipoo'ers. Are we talking Grampian? Are we talking initial NIP or subsequent summons/communication?

[euan_r]

pmed

[scooby doom]

(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of

subsection (1)© above to have been served on a person if it was sent by

registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known

address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for

any other reason not received by him.

The only force in the UK known to use registered post or recorded delivery for speeding NIPs are Dumfries & Galloway. A little venture onto Pepipoo will show many cases where credible witnesses have proved non-service within the 14-day limit.

In laymans terms "served" = delivered or received. It does not mean posted.

Ah, it starts, been waiting for it, the let's just tell the Police how their job works post.

I now feel I need to qualify my answer in order to show that the past 18 years could not have been replaced by a casual glance at a legal website.  From what I've seen Pepipoo and similar sites have been created and centre around drivers trying to get off with offences via technicalities and loop-holes.  They're full of 'this bloke said if ya say this ya should/might get off' and 'that cop should have done/said, etc..so you might get off.'  They seem to neglect the fact that anyone may have actually committed an offence.  While I see dozens of offences every day I may only speak to a small percentage of the drivers and most of them will receive verbal warnings.  I tend to look at whether the driver appeciates whether they have actually done something the ought not have and whether I believe they will accept a warning for what it is and not drive off thinking I got away with that, I showed him. Working in a rural community you tend to see the same people/cars day after day and warnings go a along way towards good Public Relations.  There are of course the minority who believe they have thr right to behave/drive as they like and then when caught it appears go running to Pepipoo for advice of how to get away with it.

But before we start getting too out of sorts I have already stated I am an Impreza owner/driver, I've been bolting bits onto my various cars since I was 17 and am happy to post on the site.  I am even willing to answer questions which non legally trained or minded people may have.  However, I am not prepared to enter into futile debates or worse arguments over differences of opinion based on third party knowledge.  Regardless of what any site says Section 1(2) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 states as I have posted above and that is the law, regardless of how others interprit it or what some forces chose do locally.  To therefore rely on what someone believes to be the case instead is taking a chance.  You will of course note that I have in no way embelsihed the facts or posted anything that would mislead anyone - it says what it says and that's all I will reproduce.  Another point is, it is not the Police who submit, issue, post or otherwise serve Notices of Intended Prosecution it is the PF or other prosecuting agent and quite frankly I have no idea about how they come to their decisions most of the time as they don't always reflect positivley on us.

So to be exact served does actually mean posted but as you have highlighted in some areas prosecuting agencies may for whatever reasons best known to themselves overlook what the statute actually requires of them and yes in such cases a lucky offender may get off via another Pepipooesque loop-hole.

[andy]

Ah, it starts, been waiting for it, the let's just tell the Police how their job works post.

You misunderstand me totally. I absolutely agree with road policing, but believe it should be done by the Police, not by some Scamera partnership that is purely driven by revenue who mislead and pressure Joe Public who may just have lost concentration for a few seconds into coughing up for their pension fund. It is these "partnerships" and the tactics that they use that are turning motorists against the average copper such as yourself - through no fault of your own, but through the fault of the establishment.

IMO, you've made a good, unbiased and valid contribution to these forums and you have a good choice of car []. I'm not directing this at you personally, I do NOT hate the Police and absolutely support the job you do. I do, however, hate the way drivers are the target of the establishment and nothing but another source of taxation.

Bring us back traffic cops with powers of discretion rather than electronic cash registers and we'll be happy []

[craig mac]

simply not true, i know from experience. []

If other forces are using registered/recorded delivery than that's a first to us Pepipoo'ers. Are we talking Grampian? Are we talking initial NIP or subsequent summons/communication?

Andy

I never over the 8 months of comms i had with the scamera unit recieved a recorded or special delivery letter from them.

Mine were all sent this way, and i have yet to recieve a reply[]

 

[gogsie]

Speeding past a School - never a good idea. I am totally happy to see speed cameras outside schools!

IMO that is what they are for. I have had 6 speeding tickets in 23 years of driving and all on Dual carriage ways, some in town - some out and the highest was 17 miles over the limit.

[Iaing]

I agree, this is where the police should be setting up speed traps. However, in this particular case, my friend was drving at 30 on the dot, not realising it could be a 20 zone. Still not sure if it was or wasn't actually. In some places in Aberdeen where the 20 mph zone has recently been placed it can be difficult to tell if its a 20 or 30 zone due to spacing of signs / road markings. The guy in question has two young kids and I don't know a more sensible driver.

Iain

[gogsie]

AHHHHH, he should be OK then and I wasn't  throwing stones!  []

[duncan_stephen]

Guys, Be VERY carefull when listening to the advice on pepipo. Scottish law can vary significantly from English.

I know a little bit about it [] but not a lot, (Eh Craig [][])

1) We do not go by the 14 day notice

2) We do not go by the recorded delivery rule.

3) The "PACE" theory does not work in Scotland

Also there are a lot of police / bad advice over there.

There a lot of loop holes, but be carefull. Remember if you do the crime, be willing to do the time. [][]

[andy]

1) We do not go by the 14 day notice

2) We do not go by the recorded delivery rule.

3) The "PACE" theory does not work in Scotland

1) Not true. The NIP must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days unless there is good reason for that not to be possible (eg Registered address with DVLA is incorrect or out of date). If the driver is NOT the Registered Keeper (eg company car) then the 14 day rule does not apply to any subsequent NIP sent to them.

2) There is no recorded delivery "rule" anywhere in the UK. As I said, the only force known to regularly use Recorded Delivery are Dumfries & Galloway, but then they can afford to with the fortune they're raking in from their cash cows on the M74 - one of the quietest motorways in Britain.

3) This is true and nobody on Pepipoo with any knowledge would advise anyone to use the PACE approach in Scotland.

As for a lot of bad information on Pepipoo, there is bad information on every website that has a forum. It just depends on who you choose to listen to. There is a wealth of information and advice available there, none of which involve using "loopholes". Rather the tactic is to use the law to fight the law. We are expected to obey the law and the establishment must also (though sadly they very often don't)