Open Source Remap

[maxy]

what do poeple think

i now know i want a remap

do i get an open source remap or do i go to the likes of andy forrest

has anyone used Trackhound Tuning what you think of him

thanks maxy

[StrikE]

Most people wouldnt go by andy f. Don't know anything about trackhound tho

[Leonraven]

Got my 07 WRX mapped by Duncan @ Dynamix and I'm very pleased with it!!, I had replaced the standard with a VF43 and an STi intercooler!

[RA Dunk]

There was a massive 10 page thread on scoobynet on this a few weeks ago discussing the pros and cons of each, go dig it up theres some intresting stuff on it

[scouk]

Generally speakign the open source stuff will do the same job as a licenced software..

What you don't get with open source is the guarantee "if" the software cocks up the flashing of the ECU.. But to my knowledge this has "never" happened..!

Open Source will also not lock your ECU so other people can access it, also significantly cheaper than licenced alternatives.

But... Most professional tuners used ECUTek which does lock the ECU and means any future tweaks need to go back to an ECUTek tuner..

As for quality of maps, both software types change the same data tables on the ECU's and the end result is the same. It's more down to the tuner at the end of the day.

I use Open Source stuff for mapping my own car and not had any problems.. Just more horses and torquey things (Did loose about 6 months of my life learning it all to make sure I "fully" understood what I was doing)

Don't whatever you do go for off the shelf maps.. Each map is tuned to individual cars.. even cars fitted with the same mods have different tolerences!!

If you are looking for the best map in the country! You can't go wrong with Andy Forrest!

[GazTurboUK]

Is this possible on version 4 (98) ecu's?

[DR Motosport]

That was a good read

It certainly was, 16 pages now.

I don't go on Scoobynet much, too much bitchin'; and sure enough there's plenty on that post.

But Bob Rawle's post (think it's 190) shows a good honest comparison between the 2.

But it mostly down to how good the mapper is, and if you want the safety backup from EcuTek against having that initial purchase of an EcuTek licence.

Now from my point of view, and I don't map cars or sell maps.

But when I'm spending a lot of money on new tuning parts for myself, I'm not going to skimp at the most important time of the tuning by not wanting to pay a couple of hundred pound for the sake of a licence and use of the best mapper.

I will only use Andy Forrest. He's 3/4 hour from me, and going elsewhere doesn't make sense.

There are literally thousands of happy customers of Andy's, a lot of them on here too.

You'll notice on the Scoobynet thread, the only ones to try and criticise him are other tuners trying to get his business. When that doesn't work they then try and bring in the rolling road V's road tuning arguement.

But here's an important observation for them. That's were I drive - on the road.

[scouk]

But here's an important observation for them. That's were I drive - on the road.

Very good point there!

If your aiming for bragging rights with BHP's and lb-ft's then running on a rolling road is your best bet, it's "clinical" and where the numbers will be read on.. Whereas, real road mapping allows you to have the car set-up for hte way you drive.. Sure you may not have the most powerful car on the street, but by god you'll probably have the most drivable in the real world! IMHO..

Rolling roads aren't bad... They are good for diagnosis and testing and a sort of laboritory environment, but it's not the real world.

Also agree with the view that there's no point skimping on a couple hundred quid just to get a car mapped.. The priority is more the quality of the person tuning your car rather than the software they use.. A bad map can destroy a car pretty quickly! Sorry to pick AndyF's name again but I'm sure if he used open source stuff, his work would be just as good.. But he uses EcuTek, which he probably feels more comfortable using, and rightly so, it is a more complete package of tools..

I haven't read the ScoobyNet thread but if someone has a link to it I wouldn't mind a looksee (too lazy to go find it )

[RA Dunk]

but if someone has a link to it I wouldn't mind a looksee (too lazy to go find it )

So am I but I'll half help you find it

especially for you scot, scoobynet search function, fill yer beets

[RS Grant]

Trackhound is on here isn't he...

Cheers,

Grant

[arch]

As others have said anyone can map a car but the results you get are down to the experience and expertise of the mapper.

Andy has mapped both my road and race cars and I can see no reason to go elsewhere. As Dave says Dyno's can be a very useful tool no more no less. I have not had either of my cars on a Dyno just to get a bhp/torque figure and dont intend to, it wont make any of them any faster.

[trackhound]

Trackhound is on here isn't he...

Cheers,

Grant

Hi Grant - yes I'm here and happy to answer any questions. Just drop me a PM or give me a buzz 07769683303.

All the best.

Alistair

[longboarder77]

Yes I've used Trackhound.

He mostly maps existing Newage ECUs I think. (Saves buying new hardwear and rewiring)

I was doing some gentle ignition advance tests on my Classic with Apexi PFC and he gave me some great help.

Then when I went 2.5L and bigger turbo my MAF needded a full recalculaton - the car was running like a dog. Trackhound (AL) mapped it for me and the power delivery is smooth and awesome. I also have half the knock noise showing on my Apexi commander screen that I had before and learned loads while going along for the ride. Thanks Al - nice work!

[trackhound]

Yes I've used Trackhound.

He mostly maps existing Newage ECUs I think. (Saves buying new hardwear and rewiring)

I was doing some gentle ignition advance tests on my Classic with Apexi PFC and he gave me some great help.

Then when I went 2.5L and bigger turbo my MAF needded a full recalculaton - the car was running like a dog. Trackhound (AL) mapped it for me and the power delivery is smooth and awesome. I also have half the knock noise showing on my Apexi commander screen that I had before and learned loads while going along for the ride. Thanks Al - nice work!

Thanks and great to hear you are happy with your car. That forged 2.5/20g/FMIC combination with blow through maf is a cracking set up.

[tomwrx08]

Got my 07 WRX mapped by Duncan @ Dynamix and I'm very pleased with it!!, I had replaced the standard with a VF43 and an STi intercooler!

what u running with those changes.im looking at the same with a full 3"decat as well

[andrew_forrest]

Just a point, Ecutek doesn't lock you out of your ECU, nor does it mean you have to go back to the same tuner.

I use Ecutek as it is a professional product with full support available to only professional tuners. It is the best product on the market. Prodrive share that view as they use Ecutek software to remap the International rally cars, the PPP cars, the WR1, RB320, 330S...

Litchfields also use Ecutek for the type 25 and now for the new GTR

If these guys thought they could offer the same quality mapping at lower cost, I'm sure they would.

cheers

Andy

[scouk]

Just a point, Ecutek doesn't lock you out of your ECU, nor does it mean you have to go back to the same tuner.

Hi Andy,

Nice to hear that.. My understanding that in order to read / amend ECUTek maps you had to use ECUTek software, and that the licence for the map was held by the mapper/tuner.. So say if you moved to another part of the country and got an further ECUTek "tweak" you would have to pay for a new licence with the new mapper? Or does the licence go with the ECU rather than tied to the software installation on the PC?

Also don't most ECUTEk maps now lock themselves down from access from non ECUTek softwares.. So say switchign from ECUTek to open source (although if you already had ECUTek you'd probably go back to it again), would mean having to start with a default map again rather than amendign what was already there. I remember hearing this was an issue with the later PPP ECU's which coudl not be read withotu effectively wiping the map. Or is this an option on ECUTek whether or not to lock it?

Genuinly curious as to how it all works..

[andrew_forrest]

The Ecutek licence remains with the ECU. Any Ecutek tuner can then gain free access to that ECU although they can only write to it with their own work, this simply protects the original tuners work from copying (or used to).

There was a facility to 'lock' the ECU to one tuner but nobody does that as far as I'm aware. Ecutek dealers can also put the ECU back to standard free of charge should someone wish to start tuning it themselves.

Recent 'pirate' software now allows free copying of Ecutek maps, there are now some OS guys out there collecting a nice portfolio of other tuners hard work !

The Ecutek tuning licences can now be bought in 'bulk' for purposes such as group buys etc, this way it adds only £125 to the initial mapping costs with no future licence fees applying.

cheers

Andy

[trackhound]

The Ecutek licence remains with the ECU. Any Ecutek tuner can then gain free access to that ECU although they can only write to it with their own work, this simply protects the original tuners work from copying (or used to).

There was a facility to 'lock' the ECU to one tuner but nobody does that as far as I'm aware. Ecutek dealers can also put the ECU back to standard free of charge should someone wish to start tuning it themselves.

Recent 'pirate' software now allows free copying of Ecutek maps, there are now some OS guys out there collecting a nice portfolio of other tuners hard work !

The Ecutek tuning licences can now be bought in 'bulk' for purposes such as group buys etc, this way it adds only £125 to the initial mapping costs with no future licence fees applying.

cheers

Andy

Hi just to clarify that I tune newage ECUs using open source software called 'Romraider' which does not and will not support the read/write of Ecutek protected maps.

Thanks

Alistair

[P1_Paul]

Just to add that there is no proof that ECUEdit is pirate, far from it. They've obvioulsy reversed engineered the ECUTek handshaking protocols(lock) but that's no different to what ECUTek/ECUFlash have done with the Subaru/Denso ECU.

[scouk]

Just to add that there is no proof that ECUEdit is pirate, far from it.

I think Andy was referring to the additional "addon" for ECUEdit which fudges the standard read protcol and allows you to bypass the ECUTek lock on the ECU. I wouldn't class it as "pirate" either but perhaps a little unlawful if used as it's breaching licencing agreements.. However it could be useful for diagnosing problems if a ECUTEk mapper isn't available.. I have a copy of this hack (as I'm sure many other OS mappers have) but never used it.. Curious to see if it works though

I do agree with Andy that it's pretty unlawful to read licenced maps which someone has paid good money for, that's the whole point of the lock, but I also see the other side where if someone pays for a map they should have ownership of it and be free to use it in whatever way they see fit.. Quite tempting to see other peoples maps but there are plenty other off the shelf maps on teh OS market (perticularly on US sites) for comparing different maps to see what mappers are doing.. All totally legit..

Despite being on the OS side of the fence, OS doesn't have any sort of proper Launch Control or Dual Mapping available.. yet..... WHich ECUTek does have as a stable platform.. Not so much interested in LC but Dual Map woudl be handy...

[trackhound]

I think Andy was referring to the additional "addon" for ECUEdit which fudges the standard read protcol and allows you to bypass the ECUTek lock on the ECU. I wouldn't class it as "pirate" either but perhaps a little unlawful if used as it's breaching licencing agreements.. However it could be useful for diagnosing problems if a ECUTEk mapper isn't available.. I have a copy of this hack (as I'm sure many other OS mappers have) but never used it.. Curious to see if it works though

I do agree with Andy that it's pretty unlawful to read licenced maps which someone has paid good money for, that's the whole point of the lock, but I also see the other side where if someone pays for a map they should have ownership of it and be free to use it in whatever way they see fit.. Quite tempting to see other peoples maps but there are plenty other off the shelf maps on teh OS market (perticularly on US sites) for comparing different maps to see what mappers are doing.. All totally legit..

Despite being on the OS side of the fence, OS doesn't have any sort of proper Launch Control or Dual Mapping available.. yet..... WHich ECUTek does have as a stable platform.. Not so much interested in LC but Dual Map woudl be handy...

I have just patched LC onto the rom on my own car (02 wrx) and it works great. Switchable boost and flat foot shifting is also available for certain roms for new age cars via Tinywrex's excellent work for modest fee. Drop me a pm and I can provide further info.

[P1_Paul]

I think Andy was referring to the additional "addon" for ECUEdit which fudges the standard read protcol and allows you to bypass the ECUTek lock on the ECU. I wouldn't class it as "pirate" either but perhaps a little unlawful if used as it's breaching licencing agreements.. However it could be useful for diagnosing problems if a ECUTEk mapper isn't available.. I have a copy of this hack (as I'm sure many other OS mappers have) but never used it.. Curious to see if it works though

I do agree with Andy that it's pretty unlawful to read licenced maps which someone has paid good money for, that's the whole point of the lock, but I also see the other side where if someone pays for a map they should have ownership of it and be free to use it in whatever way they see fit.. Quite tempting to see other peoples maps but there are plenty other off the shelf maps on teh OS market (perticularly on US sites) for comparing different maps to see what mappers are doing.. All totally legit..

Despite being on the OS side of the fence, OS doesn't have any sort of proper Launch Control or Dual Mapping available.. yet..... WHich ECUTek does have as a stable platform.. Not so much interested in LC but Dual Map woudl be handy...

The reverse engineering of the ecutek lock/protocol is no different to what ecutek did with the subaru/Denso one. There is no license, that's merely a marketing term imho, I certainly never seen nor agreed to one when I had my map.

I agree this shouldn't be used to steal maps, however, it is handy if you have one of the ecu's that can't be unlocked.

I now have a non-ecutek ecu and have played about with LC, it works well, it'll build 10 or so psi stationary. Dual maps are available but only a few Roms are supported.

I'd be willing to help anyone out that wanted to get started using OS to log or map, just give me a shout.

[scouk]

The reverse engineering of the ecutek lock/protocol is no different to what ecutek did with the subaru/Denso one. There is no license, that's merely a marketing term imho, I certainly never seen nor agreed to one when I had my map.

Well Explained and very good point

I now have a non-ecutek ecu and have played about with LC, it works well, it'll build 10 or so psi stationary. Dual maps are available but only a few Roms are supported.

Cool! Not being doing any ECU stuff for about 12 months due to more mechanical problems with the car, but it woudl appear I have some catching up to do with the recent developments...

[andrew_forrest]

I have only ever had 1 request to open an ECU for the owner to tweek the map himself and that was Paul. I agree you shouldn't be 'locked out' of your own ECU however Ecutek have to protect their investment in man hours, developing this software, which has been to the benefit of the whole Subaru community for many years.

Ecutek have now been supplying a professional, fully tested product for around 10 years and as I mentioned previously, have produced many performance cars direct from the factory, complete with full Subaru warranty.

Gaining this level of manufacturer and consumer confidence and respect has taken quite some investment, so to have someone come and "copy" "paste" a Prodrive PPP map for example is surely not what they would like to see happen. This will have involved Prodrive staff in hundreds of hours of development work in a number of countrys, under different climate conditions, using different grades of fuel.

I think that trying to protect their work from plaigiarism or piracy is quite understandable.

cheers

Andy