VERY SICK VF 22 ( HELP )

[craig_murray]

Hi all,

im looking for some advice , i threw a blade on my VF 22 last week and today on my way back from Helensburgh i noticed a lot of smoke coming from the back.Is this normal when a turbo goes or not and if it is can the car still be driven safely.I dont want to end up damaging anything else.The noise from the turbo is really bad now rattling like mad.

Really appreciate any help or advice.

Craig.

[dougie549]

Hi M8

Yip that sounds about right for the Vf 22 as there was a bad batch of they made.

I bet the turbo sounds like a screaming screaching noise if you are going any where near boost preasure.

Try and drive slow avoiding boost preasure till you get home and i wouldnt till you get it fixed,shouldnt have caused any problems to any thing else as the turbo is the fault issue. You can get it fixed buy sending it down to the likes of Turbo Dynamics ect but you will pay for it.

I would maybe try and get a second hand VF35 turbo instead as you should find you will be able to do more with this in the long run when you start to mod more.

Cheer dougie

[craig_murray]

Thanks for the reply Dougie

and it sounds exactly like that mate the screach is horrendous.Ive ordered an AFTDO5/20G through AWD MOTORSPORT but i think its still a few weeks away ill need to phone Grant on monday im stuck without the car i sold the wee run around last month.Kicking myself now.Do you think it will be ok doing 4 or 5 miles a day to get me to my work and back or should i park it up.

Cheers

Craig

[jcscoob]

craig i done the same thing on tuesday with a vf23 but i whent straight home and no smoke .

[craig_murray]

These VFs aint very strong are they.Hope the AFTDO5/20G IS.

Goin out tomorrow to get a run about gonna put the SCOOB off the road till the turbo and injectors are ready to be fitted.Been told the TD05/20G is strong and reliable and good for 400bhp.How would standard internals cope with that kind of power though ?

Sam Ellis whos gonna map my Motec M800 reckons running it at 1.3 to 1.4 bar for around 370/380 bhp

400bhp would be achievable at 1.6 bar but will the engine cope.Anyone any ideas ?

Thanks

Craig

[dipsy]

Ask Alang about hp on standard internals .There was a profile of his car in japanese performance when it was a 2.0 turbo with 400bhp on standard internals this was year or more a go.Hes now running a 2.5 what i read in scoobymag

[craig_murray]

Cheers Dipsy.I read the article on his 2.5 sounds sweet.I think he said he spent most of his time lookin at gauges wondering if it was gonna go pop.I think ill ask sam to set the Apexi to 1.5/1.6 for playing and 1.3/1.4 for normal use.Its never enough mate is it.

Craig.

[RS Grant]

Craig, is that Sam "The Dentist" mate??

Can he map any sort of car confidently, for instance, a GT4??

Cheers,

Grant

[craig_murray]

Thats right Grant Sam THE DENTIST Ellis.He mapped the scoob when i got the VF 22,front mount,injectors and Apexi fitted.The guy really knows his stuff Grant hes mapped cars all over the world from road to track.Talked to him last week to book it in once the 550cc injectors are in and the TDO5/20G.If you want i can ask him about your GT4 when im up.Probably be a couple of weeks though hes really busy.Are you running an aftermarket ECU or standard

Craig

[RS Grant]

If you could ask what the chance of gettin an ST205 GT4 WRC mapped on either an Apexi Power FC & Commander & 3 Bar map sensor, or a Motec M4 PRO with Anti-Lag/Launch Control/Flat Shift & 3 Bar map sensor both to run around 1.8/1.9bar boost.

The car is still on stock ECU at the moment, however if I got for PowerFC I'll need something done reasonably soon, though still not for about a month.. but if I wait for Motec then it'll be around October time probably so I can make sure I've bought everything I need to run the extra features available to me.

Cheers,

Grant

[dougie549]

Hi Guys

First of Rs Grant Dont take this the wrong way but if you want Sam to map your car i would speak to him your self and sort it out that way rather than get some 1 else to do it and maybe get a bit of info wrong.

Craig Just to say that Sam has mapped both of my Scoobs now and have always been impressed with the way he work's and i have had the Vf 28 and the VF23 thats on just .

I would personaly not drive the car at all now just incase more bits of the turbo come of and lodge them self in the engine. Did you get the blade out of the Front mount piping???

Cheers Dougie

[RS Grant]

Dougie, thats a fair point mate... I was just wanting to know if Sam thought he could manage a GT4 as I've never heard of one being mapped by him before. If someone could PM me his contact details then that'd be great, I'll just get in touch directly.

Cheers,

Grant

[drb5]

Hey Dougie. Sniffin about the scoobs again are we?!

Me being pedantic here, but it's Sam Ellasar, not Ellis.

Standard internal's could well last at 1.6 BAR, but in my own personnal experiences, it won't for very long, unless your fairly lucky. I can't remember how much boost Alan was running, or even Scoty, or anyone else, but by fitting headers, you lower the boost for the same power, which is in my eye's, quite a safety precaution.

I'm sure Sam could well map the car for that boost if you wanted to, but i doubt he would warrant the map work, for running that amount of boost.

Rambling on a bit now, so i'll leave it at that now.

[craig_murray]

Hey Dougie

thanks for the info mate.I went out yesterday and picked up a wee Clio RT to scoot about in while the scoobs waiting to go to AWD for the turbo and injectors.Then the plan was to take it straight to Dundee to Sam so it can be mapped.Hes gonna hold it for a few days to sort my cold start problem out.It takes a few cranks to start with the Motec anyway but its now taking between 5-10 secs with my foot to the floor.I always thought Sams last name was Ellis , dont know where i got that.Thanks for that.

Would also say that Sam did warn me of running the VF 22 at 1.5 bar and was not surprised it went.Completely my fault , i LOVED 1.5 bar unfortunately it didnt.Not looked in piping yet do it today got a weeks holiday.

Sam has suggested running 1.3/1.4 bar through the TDO5/20G which would be good for approx. 370.I got stainless headers , up pipe & 3inch system fitted at AWD 3/4 weeks ago so hopefully sorted there.

Thanks for all the valuable info. guys once im back on the road and theres another meet ill come along if thats ok ?

Cheers

Craig

[AlanG]

I wouldn't drive it at all Craig (if possible) if it's broken a blade.

Continuing to drive the car *may* cause further problems if the rest of the compressor wheel rubs on the housing which is probably likely.

[AlanG]

I ran 1.4 bar to get over 400 on the 2 litre Dave.

With the hindsight of experience now from other owners, it would appear the std engine is quite happy with 1.4 bar dependant on mods.

[craig_murray]

Ok Alan thanks.Pickin up the wee Clio tomorrow.Gonna have a problem gettin the scoob up to Perth from Glasgow to AWD.

Someone mentioned i should talk to you Alan on your experience of running 400 on standards.

Would appreciate any advice,help and lessons learned you gained mate.

Cheers

Craig

[jasonb]

I have a VF23 and run 19 - 20 psi and have done for a long time and it seems to be ok

[craig_murray]

Thanks.

Ill get Sam to set the Apexi for 1.4 bar like he suggested & perhaps 1.5 for playing.

Thanks for everyones input.

Craig

[AlanG]

My engine was happiest at 1.4 bar on the TD05-06/20G. Didn't feel stressed at that and v. torquey.

My thoughts at the time were that i had done about 35000 miles on that engine and the output was close to twice as much over standard..so felt i should look for another engine which would be able to take what i could throw/ afford to throw at it, hence being concerned at the time looking at gauges etc. At that time, no one *really* knew if they would stay together at that level cause there hadn't been std engines having done '000's of miles at that state of tune. Plenty at 300-350, but not much more.

I ended up selling the engine while it was still in good condition to fund the new one. Never used a drop of oil despite all the different turbos and mods done to it over the years.

[craig_murray]

Alan if you dont mind if i list my mods can you give me your valued opinion on the mods and anything else you can suggest to keep it safe and reliable to a point and anything else you can think of.

I was talking to Grant at AWD there and hes going to send a truck down for the car next week and hopefully Andy F will bring the turbo up on the 11th.I think there having problems sourcing SARD 550cc injectors for me.

Mods so far;

PACE FRONT MOUNT AND UPRATED RADIATOR WITH TWIN FANS

MOTEC M800

UPRATED FUEL PUMP

APEXI AVC-R

3" STAINLESS SYSTEM

3" STAINLESS DOWN PIPE ( WRAPPED )

STAINLESS UP PIPE ( WRAPPED )

STAINLESS HEADERS ( WRAPPED )

TURBOSMART DUMPVALVE

AP RACING 3 PIECE ORGANIC CLUTCH

STI RELEASE BEARING

AFTDO5-20G

550CC INJECTORS

MAGNECORE LEADS

AWD COLD AIR KIT IN INNER WING

i think thats everything you tend to loose track.

Again , thanks Alan.

Craig.

[AlanG]

You seem to have it all sorted really as far as mods are concerned.

What are your power goals though?

Re: spec: The AVC-R is a good piece of kit, but don't think you would really need it since your running Motec, unless you want gear based boost control. Anyone know if Motec can be mapped for individual gears?

You didn't mention plugs. if not in there already, fit a set of 7's instead of the standard 6's.

[drb5]

Cheers Alan. Hopefully i remember that now.

Bob mentioned about some new air injector he's using with the Motec. Didn't manage to get time on Sunday to discuss in detail about it, but it sounds better on the Motec than the AVCR.

[craig_murray]

I would love to be around the 380-400 mark if possible but more importantly as much torque as possible.Not sure how much boost would be required for that , is 1.5 bar ok or should i stick to 1.4 bar ?

Not sure about plugs probably still on 6s ill get a new set of 7s ordered up.

I realise at these types of power figures on standard internals your in the lap of the gods.

Not using any gauges apart from whats on Apexi can you suggest any worth while ones ?

Bit like yourself too many gauges would drive me into the nut house or AWD every day.

How long were you running over 400 for Alan before the 2.5 ?

Craig

[AlanG]

<< Hopefully i remember that now. >>

I'm lost on that one..whats the frown for?

At 1.4 bar i got 352Ib ft at Star rolling road on Optimax only which i thought was pretty damn good. Running methanol or NF etc can give you more.

Gauges? I now use a water temp, fuel pressure and oil pressure gauge. There is also an AFR meter in the dash and a removable EGT gauge (thats only used whilst mapping).

I'd have the oil pressure and fuel pressure as necessary gauges.

Quite a while at 400, probably 6 / 9 months or so? (can't remember it was some time ago!!)