Police Exhaust Noise Level Meters ?

[scoob fae ork]

Hi all i have just been informed today that the local bobbys have recived one of this damn exhaust noise level meters and they have been stopping all the young drivers around town which include a few Scoobs. What im concerned about is that one of the Scoobs that was stopped and fined is no louder than my car and he has been told to change his exhaust but the thing is on my car its the Prodrive back box and a hayward and scott system as its the back box that determins the noise of your car what will i do when im stopped as thats the back box the car left Subaru with as new.

[colzo]

What H&S parts do you have, as the de resonated centre section would make a difference to the noise.

[scoob fae ork]

What H&S parts do you have, as the de resonated centre section would make a difference to the noise.

Its a turbo back de-cat but i found it just made the sound crisper i did not notice it being louder after getting it fitted but that could be down to the stereo i dont stand a chance do i ?

[RA Dunk]

just throw in a bung till everything quietings down

[thefastone]

just throw in a bung till everything quietings down

Boom Boom!

Well I dont know, I should have thought that if your running the prodrive backbox, thats a standard fit optional extra... and the hayward and scott made the prodrive system anyways, as I am aware...

I reckon that you'll be fine, if you can get a bung for it, then buy one after they ping you for it, for at the end of the day, if you are only running a prodrive backbox, then I think that you are safe enough...

Edited November 10, 2007 by thefastone

[scoobyiain]

hope i don't get checked

[corsa]

How they test it is as follows, hold the ( newley calibrated) noise meter at a distance of 500mm away from the tailpipe and a 45 degree angle the reading should be no higher that 100db.

pop into your local HSS, martin plant etc and ask them to do a quick check to give you piece of mind.

[thefastone]

How they test it is as follows, hold the ( newley calibrated) noise meter at a distance of 500mm away from the tailpipe and a 45 degree angle the reading should be no higher that 100db.

pop into your local HSS, martin plant etc and ask them to do a quick check to give you piece of mind.

Hmmm, seems like a bit of an unlikley place to go to get a check on your exhaust.... will they actually do that for you?

[scouk]

Well I dont know, I should have thought that if your running the prodrive backbox, thats a standard fit optional extra... and the hayward and scott made the prodrive system anyways, as I am aware...

This is what's really annoying me about this method of detection. Ok yeah young loons are going around with fat drainpipes on the back of their corsas trying to soudn like a scooby.. fine get them.. But the impreza needs the larger exhaust because it's a performance car! ok fine dont have a 5" backbox.. But in terms of the Prodrive exhaust. Which I believe will be too loud! THis is not a good sign.

Not only as you say is it a standard option but.. For a while subaru were selling the Impreza with free PPP installed. Basically the prodrive exhaust came as standard! So what the police will be saying is that your standard car which may never have been modified is illegal! I've just got the PPP on my car and I'll be well peed off if theres a problem with it! I'd accept if I had a rediculous aftermarket exhaust..

Anyone fancy suing subaru? (& not just for hte styling of the new MY08 )

And before you say oh but the PPP was still an "option" even though it's free. Well the Sti is an "option" over a WRX which is an "option" over a Sport e.t.c. a PPP version is simply another model of the impreza IMHO!

[gus the bus]

If you get stopped, send the bill to prodrive!

[colzo]

I don`t think the Prodrive backbox is the problem. If you just had the PPP and no other exhaust changes you would have no probs. When I changed my resonated centre section to a straight through unresonated pipe there was defo a change in the tone and noise of the exhaust but nowhere near exceeding the limits of the law. I would like to think you will be fine.

[scoob fae ork]

I don`t think the Prodrive backbox is the problem. If you just had the PPP and no other exhaust changes you would have no probs. When I changed my resonated centre section to a straight through unresonated pipe there was defo a change in the tone and noise of the exhaust but nowhere near exceeding the limits of the law. I would like to think you will be fine.

Thanks Guys its a bit of peace of mind as i have just bought a house with my other half and i really cant aford to pay for a silly fine like that . Thanks all for your help . oh when i get stoped which i will as this is the orkney ploice were talking about al let you know how i get on .

[thefastone]

Blimey Al, youve gone all extreme on us...

I would be very doubtfull whatever way that you look at it, that we will really have a problem, tbh, if your exhaust is THAT loud, then chances are, you have it de-catted too, and that means that the volume is prolly the least of your worries...

just a thought like...

Fairl certain. Like Col said, you'll be fine...

Edited November 10, 2007 by thefastone

[john mac]

This happened to a guy a while ago up in Inverness with PPP fitted , heres a link to the thread which makes interesting reading.

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-general...al-exhaust.html

[thefastone]

Was going to say, Orkney... thats Still Highland constaburgalary isn't it?

if so then they are just a law unto themselves anyways....

[l2 nrm]

o well i better get ready 4 a fine h&s back box 5inc tail pipe makes ma car bit loud

[scouk]

Blimey Al, youve gone all extreme on us...

Lol! dont think it's all that extreme.. They want quiet wispering cars on our roads. Same with motorbikes. But in the same way nearly every bike enthusuast will have an illecal tailpipe. Also look at something like a harley. They will never be legal yet they are here. Police can simply decide whether to pull let or let them be.. I guess fairness at the time comes into it.. Which is kinda why I try not to draw attention to myself when driving around (in a bright red Impreza )

Besides I hold a grudge after they hammered me for the tinted windows which were on the car when I got it! (nother story)

the 100db rule is pretty loud though.. Is that tested at idle or higher rpm?

[thefastone]

Nah Al, I'm only pulling your leg mate...

John, thats a very interesting thread, with, a very interesting link too, the five-0 forums, where there was a couple of bobbies that clearly dont know any better about the law...

opens the eyes a little...

Personally I would make a point at the time of making a statement that you were not happy with the test, that it was not carried out within regulations... they have to write that down in their little books, word for word, and that then is evidence... because you are making a statement... but yeah, better safe than sorry, at least then if they try to convict you, from the word go there is a challenge...

But the bottim line here, I think, is that if the exhaust has a Kite mark, or an E number, is in good condition, is not modified (ie: its not been cut) then really, its legal... so yeah...

[scoob fae ork]

Blimey Al, youve gone all extreme on us...

I would be very doubtfull whatever way that you look at it, that we will really have a problem, tbh, if your exhaust is THAT loud, then chances are, you have it de-catted too, and that means that the volume is prolly the least of your worries...

just a thought like...

Fairl certain. Like Col said, you'll be fine...

Yeah its been de- cated what is the penalty for that or how do they test for it if your caught by the Highlands and islands batty boys

Edited November 10, 2007 by Scoob Fae Ork

[scooby doom]

Having looked at this thread and the Scoobynet link the problems seem to be down to individual Police forces interpreting the legislation and adopting local procedures to deal with same. In respect of exhausts and the noise created (or not) by them there are several directions from which Police could look to deal with drivers they believe are offending. Obviously I say believe as being charged and receiving a ticket is not in itself a conviction. As with any other offence a driver may challenge same and the Police evidence must then be lead and accepted by a court. This process can in turn lead to a conviction or acquittal but more importantly a statutory precedent being set. This is better known as a ‘stated case’ and if upheld on appeal can then be used to assist in determining future similar cases. Anyway, back to perceived excessive noise from exhausts.

Firstly, a look at the legislation, seeing what it says and whether it appears to have been correctly interpreted is needed before starting to comment on whether we merely agree with it or not.

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended makes the following abbreviated provisions:

Regulation 54

1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be fitted with an exhaust system including a silencer and the exhaust gases from the engine shall not escape into the atmosphere without first passing through the silencer.

2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not, after the date of manufacture, be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

Regulation 97

No motor vehicle shall be used in such a manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.

The Road Traffic Act 1988 creates an offence for contravening any of the above regulations.

So, in general terms what are they about.

Reg 54(1) - relates to noise caused by missing pieces of an exhaust system or the traditional ‘burst exhaust’ and as such you can’t really argue with that – it’s either there and/or defective or it isn’t.

Reg 54(2) - relates to altering the standard spec to create more noise (probably came about years ago with people knocking out baffles on MkII escorts and the like). We’ll come back to this one.

Reg 97 - relates to the manner of driving rather than construction of any component of a vehicle and could include unnecessary high revving while stationary or pulling away from a junction or lights and wheels spin. Basically, any noise that would not occur or be heard while driving in a normal manner. Again if you think your foot slipped on the clutch then you’re entitled to go to court and argue your case.

Subsequent to the above the Anti Social Behaviour legislation has recently been used by primarily incorporating Regs 54(2) and 97 when trying to kerb unnecessary driving habits which may cause general annoyance.

But back to Reg 54(2) where the real issue seems to be what constitutes ‘altered’ as it seems obvious that many after market exhausts do increase noise to some degree. Personally, I would like to think that altering would imply some form of modification to an existing standard component. However, it also seems that some Police forces are viewing the replacement of an existing part on a ‘like for like’ basis as amounting to altering. Not my view and something that may eventually require a court challenge and ‘stated case’ to finally create a legal ruling. Until then if a Police force directs it’s officers to report drivers for creating noise via loud exhausts then these are the ways it will be done.

Now, as for db levels, I’ve not been directly involved but my understanding of the process is as follows:

Firstly a large number of standard vehicles of all types are tested and their individual db volumes recorded. This is done as previously mentioned by a sound detection device situated a prescribed distance from the pipe. The test is carried out at a suitable location with low ambient background noise and repeated 3 times. The sound is recorded for a set duration of a few seconds at a steady 4500 rpm. This then provides a db level for an individual model of car. Some forces then take all of the sample db levels, adopt the noisiest of the bunch as their benchmark and add 10%. If your car is tested it will be compared to both the highest known standard (benchmark+10%) and that of a standard model of your own vehicle. If your vehicle is higher than these then you’re likely be charged but in terms of Reg 54(2). You may then wish to seek legal advice in respect of ‘altered’ as previously mentioned. It is highly unlikely that measurements would be taken for a charge under Reg 54(1) or 97 as the actual volume would be irrelevant.

Figures are often bandied about and a figure of 100db may be adopted locally be some. From what I’ve seen the average car tested has a db level of roughly between 65-85db. Therefore, benchmark+10% would be approx. 93db and any louder could possibly be looking at further action.

I would say that picking cars at random just because they have a audible exhaust would be highly unfair. However, have a pipe which sounds straight through or drive around a town centre or housing scheme with lead boots on then you’re likely to be pulled. My advice is to think about where you are, what action has been taken against other drivers in that area and don’t draw undue attention to your car by the manner of your driving and you should have little to worry about.

Traffic legislation is generally dealt with through a mix of enforcement (tickets) and education (warnings). Let’s hope if the situation arises you are educated.

Finally, we, yes even I don’t agree with all of the laws but you know what they are and if you fall foul of them seek actual legal advice rather than relying on www.weknowbest.com. I’ve said it before being treated unfairly is not right and should be challenged but I can’t condone those who knowingly commit an offence and merely look for a loophole (or website) to get off on some technicality.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Scooby Doom

[derek_wright]

How they test it is as follows, hold the ( newley calibrated) noise meter at a distance of 500mm away from the tailpipe and a 45 degree angle the reading should be no higher that 100db.

pop into your local HSS, martin plant etc and ask them to do a quick check to give you piece of mind.

sorry guys but got stopped the other week and got a fixed fine of 40 quid and the car was only making 97 db told by plod that the limite was only 85 db but they were allowing up to 92 db

[col666]

I got pulled in Inverness over 2 years ago in my old Wagon, the cops told me I was allowed up to 92db.

It read 99db with their tester, i got a £40 fine. I paid the fine then after a bit of research I found out nearly all the local boy racers had also been caught and had contested the cops findings resulting in the courts not proceeding with any legal action. At the time there was no law about how loud your exhaust can be, I dont know if this has now changed.

The ticket I got said I had 'a defective exhaust'!!

The police also have to test the car in proper test conditions with no background noise etc, mine was tested beside a main road!

[derek_wright]

I got pulled in Inverness over 2 years ago in my old Wagon, the cops told me I was allowed up to 92db.

It read 99db with their tester, i got a £40 fine. I paid the fine then after a bit of research I found out nearly all the local boy racers had also been caught and had contested the cops findings resulting in the courts not proceeding with any legal action. At the time there was no law about how loud your exhaust can be, I dont know if this has now changed.

The ticket I got said I had 'a defective exhaust'!!

The police also have to test the car in proper test conditions with no background noise etc, mine was tested beside a main road!

much the same mate mine was tested in the middle of a car park not to noisy a place granted but when its while a local cruise is on it can be a bit noisy

[thefastone]

Having looked at this thread and the Scoobynet link the problems seem to be down to individual Police forces interpreting the legislation and adopting local procedures to deal with same. In respect of exhausts and the noise created (or not) by them there are several directions from which Police could look to deal with drivers they believe are offending. Obviously I say believe as being charged and receiving a ticket is not in itself a conviction. As with any other offence a driver may challenge same and the Police evidence must then be lead and accepted by a court. This process can in turn lead to a conviction or acquittal but more importantly a statutory precedent being set. This is better known as a ‘stated case’ and if upheld on appeal can then be used to assist in determining future similar cases. Anyway, back to perceived excessive noise from exhausts.

Firstly, a look at the legislation, seeing what it says and whether it appears to have been correctly interpreted is needed before starting to comment on whether we merely agree with it or not.

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended makes the following abbreviated provisions:

Regulation 54

1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be fitted with an exhaust system including a silencer and the exhaust gases from the engine shall not escape into the atmosphere without first passing through the silencer.

2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not, after the date of manufacture, be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

Regulation 97

No motor vehicle shall be used in such a manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.

The Road Traffic Act 1988 creates an offence for contravening any of the above regulations.

So, in general terms what are they about.

Reg 54(1) - relates to noise caused by missing pieces of an exhaust system or the traditional ‘burst exhaust’ and as such you can’t really argue with that – it’s either there and/or defective or it isn’t.

Reg 54(2) - relates to altering the standard spec to create more noise (probably came about years ago with people knocking out baffles on MkII escorts and the like). We’ll come back to this one.

Reg 97 - relates to the manner of driving rather than construction of any component of a vehicle and could include unnecessary high revving while stationary or pulling away from a junction or lights and wheels spin. Basically, any noise that would not occur or be heard while driving in a normal manner. Again if you think your foot slipped on the clutch then you’re entitled to go to court and argue your case.

Subsequent to the above the Anti Social Behaviour legislation has recently been used by primarily incorporating Regs 54(2) and 97 when trying to kerb unnecessary driving habits which may cause general annoyance.

But back to Reg 54(2) where the real issue seems to be what constitutes ‘altered’ as it seems obvious that many after market exhausts do increase noise to some degree. Personally, I would like to think that altering would imply some form of modification to an existing standard component. However, it also seems that some Police forces are viewing the replacement of an existing part on a ‘like for like’ basis as amounting to altering. Not my view and something that may eventually require a court challenge and ‘stated case’ to finally create a legal ruling. Until then if a Police force directs it’s officers to report drivers for creating noise via loud exhausts then these are the ways it will be done.

Now, as for db levels, I’ve not been directly involved but my understanding of the process is as follows:

Firstly a large number of standard vehicles of all types are tested and their individual db volumes recorded. This is done as previously mentioned by a sound detection device situated a prescribed distance from the pipe. The test is carried out at a suitable location with low ambient background noise and repeated 3 times. The sound is recorded for a set duration of a few seconds at a steady 4500 rpm. This then provides a db level for an individual model of car. Some forces then take all of the sample db levels, adopt the noisiest of the bunch as their benchmark and add 10%. If your car is tested it will be compared to both the highest known standard (benchmark+10%) and that of a standard model of your own vehicle. If your vehicle is higher than these then you’re likely be charged but in terms of Reg 54(2). You may then wish to seek legal advice in respect of ‘altered’ as previously mentioned. It is highly unlikely that measurements would be taken for a charge under Reg 54(1) or 97 as the actual volume would be irrelevant.

Figures are often bandied about and a figure of 100db may be adopted locally be some. From what I’ve seen the average car tested has a db level of roughly between 65-85db. Therefore, benchmark+10% would be approx. 93db and any louder could possibly be looking at further action.

I would say that picking cars at random just because they have a audible exhaust would be highly unfair. However, have a pipe which sounds straight through or drive around a town centre or housing scheme with lead boots on then you’re likely to be pulled. My advice is to think about where you are, what action has been taken against other drivers in that area and don’t draw undue attention to your car by the manner of your driving and you should have little to worry about.

Traffic legislation is generally dealt with through a mix of enforcement (tickets) and education (warnings). Let’s hope if the situation arises you are educated.

Finally, we, yes even I don’t agree with all of the laws but you know what they are and if you fall foul of them seek actual legal advice rather than relying on www.weknowbest.com. I’ve said it before being treated unfairly is not right and should be challenged but I can’t condone those who knowingly commit an offence and merely look for a loophole (or website) to get off on some technicality.

Cheers for that cracking explination mate!!!

it certainly is nice to have a fairly balanced and sensible view on what the actual score is... it helps to know the score like...

Col and Del,

Yeah its things like that I think are not fair, and I would have contested them there, perhaps I woldn't have said anything to them at the time on hind sight Like I said earlier, because I suppose its always the thing that if you say things like that, theres always the danger that they will go looking for something else and "find" something...

And Whilst I know that there are a few coppers that would be entirely fine with you, I KNOW that there are others that will happily do you for what ever they can... I dont know if I would want to take the chance...