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How Much Boost From A Wrx Ppp?


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Posted

[i've also posted this in Strictly Technical but posting here as well incase anyone local knows]

Anyone know how much boost you get from a WRX PPP? Using EcuTek rather than Gems daughterboard (or both if someone knows in the interests of comparison)

Reason I ask is that you may or may not know I'm trying to build my own PPP for my bugeye using 2nd hand bits from SIDC members and eBay. Got everything I need but I'm stuck on just over standard boost around 14-15psi (standard i was aroudn 13psi.)

I'm looking into adjusting the wastegate actuator arm if I can ever get the turbo heatsheild off. In order to get the extra boost.

I've had the chance to see a blobeye WRX PPP ECU map and the target boost levels are around 17psi but peak at 18psi. Sounds impressive and from what I can tell is just within safe tolerence of the TD04 turbo. However I recently read a comment on the net somewhere (which I could remember where) that anything over 14psi is a BAD idea using standard fuel-pump / injectors. Which kinda makes sense.

But surely its doable if the PPP boost map is targeting 17-18psi and the PPP does NOT replace fuel-pump & injectors.

Just looking for a 2nd opinion on all this...

Obviously a future plan would be to upgrade the fuelpump and injectors but is that really necessary for PPP?

Thanks

Posted

Assuming fuelling and ignition retard etc are all hunky dory you should be able to hit 1.2 to 1.3 bar ( not sure what PSI that is)

1.3 is the max you should go for and make the top end of the rev range slighty rich so as to protect against det

If I am talking poo then Wuz will be along to correct me soon

Given your home made set-up I would run 1.2 bar for a while

0.9 bar is what a standard WRX runs at for your info

Cheers

Cal

Posted

Thanks Cal,

What you say makes sense so give yourself a pat on the back. The 1.2bar is probably what I'd like to hit. The "target" boost that I have is 18.72 (1.3bar I believe this is what teh PPP maps are set to). But i've cut that down to 17.17psi (1.2bar) for the moment until I can hit that target first. Infact that's pretty much what you said above so hopefully we're both giving good advice..

For Reference 1 bar = 14.5psi or thereabouts.

At the moment I'm getting a good solid 1 bar on the car which is noticeable over standard. I've posted elsewhere on the forums and the best step forward is to tighten up the wastegate arm on the TD04 turbo to keep the wastegate closed longer to build up boost. The standard spring setting is a bit loose apparently..

Every step where i make changes I closely monitor the ECU for problems and so far I get no indication of detenation as you say. Boost tails off at higher rpm as it should and runs richer fuel higher up just to keep things safe..

Posted

I must say I thought when getting PPP for a WRX they upped the fuel pump. I know they do on the STI. It's cheap as chips anyway, so why not.

My WRX is running 1.4 peak just now on a stock Turbo. Mapped by Andy F.

That's with full decat and a Walbro 255lph fuel pump.

Posted
  ScoUK said:
Anyone know how much boost you get from a WRX PPP? Using EcuTek rather than Gems daughterboard (or both if someone knows in the interests of comparison)

1.3 bar peak trailing back to 1 bar sustained

  Quote
I've had the chance to see a blobeye WRX PPP ECU map and the target boost levels are around 17psi but peak at 18psi. Sounds impressive and from what I can tell is just within safe tolerence of the TD04 turbo.

TD04 fitted on the Impreza is a very efficient wee turbo. Being wee though means it has a limit to what it can flow. In order to increase flow (and so hp) through a fixed apperture you need to increase flow pressure - boost. The problem with running lots of boost is twofold: high boost pressure means high inlet charge temps (problematic unless they can be managed with supporting designs/mods) and back pressure increases to the point that the turbo can't push any more air through to the cylinders. Impreza TD04 does struggle with backpressure - part of the reason it spools so quickly.

Much doom & gloom was written on NASIOC about TD04s turning into flamethrowers above factory boost levels but AFAIK most of that was based on people having the wrong information. Don't know if this is maybe some of the stuff you've seen or heard that's giving you a bit of cause for concern. A fair bit of stuff was written based on a 13G compressor flow map - the Impreza TD04 uses a 13T compressor which (as all our UK tuners and Prodrive know) is way more efficent and able to be pushed a bit further while still remaining efficient and operating perfectly well with an otherwise standard engine.

  Quote
However I recently read a comment on the net somewhere (which I could remember where) that anything over 14psi is a BAD idea using standard fuel-pump / injectors.

Not sure if whoever told you this isn't maybe confusing boost and flow :wacko:. 14psi on a TD04 compared to 14psi on say an STi VF35 would show the same boost on your gauge but actual airflow differences would be significant for fueling. The TD04 being a fairly wee turbo won't flow enough air to max out your injectors. Std WRX 380cc injectors are good for approx. 300bhp (see Andy :P Fs website for some solid reliable info). Std fuel pump can maintain fuel pressure at max boost on PPP levels of performance which is don't forget only 261bhp (265PS). In short, with no other mods, the turbo will run out of ability to provide puff before your injectors run out of ability to provide juice and need upgrading - there are many folks still running 380cc injectors (with other mods) making 300bhp.

Fuel pump wise, probably not worth moving onto a high flow pump unless you're going above 300hp. FPs do wear out with age and mileage so an uprated pump can be 'belt & braces' - you know it'll meet your current and future fuel demands. Cheap and easy to do job but whether it's necessary for you, mmm....

  Quote
But surely its doable if the PPP boost map is targeting 17-18psi and the PPP does NOT replace fuel-pump & injectors.

Correct :blink:. Prodrive would have tested the PPP up the kazoo before sending it out and they will err on the side of safety margin to maintain warranty. If they change the boost profile and don't deem it necessary to change components it's because that profile will generically work and bad things wont (as a rule) start happening to customers cars.

Don't forget, again lots of folks running remapped WRXs and depending on supporting mods see power figures which are generally in XS of the PPP 261bhp ;) !

  Quote
Obviously a future plan would be to upgrade the fuelpump and injectors but is that really necessary for PPP?

As above, depends if you really get into remapping and tailor the map parameters to your car (as I said before, RESPECT :icon_pray: to you for doing this yourself fella), also will depend on what other supporting mods you do but probably only necessary if you're going to get a bigger turbo.

Hope this helps. Cheers,

Stewart.

PS quite interesting thread here which you may well find useful. Also has compressor flow maps and some datalogged figures that might be of help/further interest.

Posted
  Green Hornet said:
As above, depends if you really get into remapping and tailor the map parameters to your car (as I said before, RESPECT :icon_pray: to you for doing this yourself fella), also will depend on what other supporting mods you do but probably only necessary if you're going to get a bigger turbo.

Thanks for that mate. Just what I wanted to hear. Longer term I'm maybe like to hit 300bhp simply because thats what the WRC cars are mapped to.. Getting 300-320 woudl be a bonus STi PPP performance. But that's another phase altogether.

Immediate plans were just to basically install PPP without paying the £1600 for the upgrade. Especially on a 6 year old car. So far I've spent around £300 of the individual PPP parts Intercooler hose, Prodrive backbox, 3rd cat delete & tactrix cable which allowed me to plug in the laptop to the ECU and use free software to remap the car. Can also use it to read error codes and stuff which was the original reason for buying the cable. Note I dont claim to be an expert tuner. I'm more of a computer geek sort of thing that loved to fiddle with code and TBH with my love for the car this was just up my street. I notice AndyF has a paragraph on his site regarding such people and what he says is quite right, just a little too dodgy. The AndyF's of the world at the true gurus of the remapping industry I have total respect for what he can achieve, and reliable!. So I spent months learning about the ECU and what the values on the maps "really" do for the car. I still have a lot to learn but it's good fun, hopefully the car wont blow up.. it shouldn't because the current map I'm running is very close to teh PPP one from what I can tell and it's been trouble free for a couple months now. Just not hitting the target boost.

It's a fun project but certainly not for the faint hearted! In proper Brainiac style - "Dont try this at home!" :blink:

Ok at the end of it I wont have an official PPP car but I will have the components and the performance (maybe a little more if I decide to tweak the map a bit later on). I'll be happy with 260-265bhp at the end of this really looking for the added drivability (which I already have) and the added boost for accelleration Once I get it all finsihed and I'm happy I no doubt write a full report on it all for those interested.. Obviously there are more optimal mods which can be done for performance but I just feel the PPP is a good place to start!

Posted

Sco - for reference - I'm running about 290bhp and 290lb/ft with my mods on a 2005 WRX. Stock turbo, full decat, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, stock injectors, standard airbox with nothing done other than an STI panel filter, Zero Sports cool thermo too.

Posted
  ~ ~ Cal ~~ said:
and if it does go Pete Tong the just drop in a 2.5 litre and have more torque than that drilling unit in Armageddon

heh true! Quite like that idea. Good in conjunction with a big turbo so the engine has natural torque low down the revs then a nice fat turbo for the higher end. Not sure the insurance company would like that mod though.. besides. teh roads around here already have holes in them withoout 400+bhp tearing them up :icon_pray:

  st3ph3n said:
Sco - for reference - I'm running about 290bhp and 290lb/ft with my mods on a 2005 WRX. Stock turbo, full decat, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, stock injectors, standard airbox with nothing done other than an STI panel filter, Zero Sports cool thermo too.

geez! that sounds pretty impressive! What's that "Zero Sports cool thermo"? not heard of that before.

A decatted up-pipe is on the cards for the future, possibly before fuel-pumps and stuff. Earlier spool up on the turbo would be nice. Not sure whether or not I'll get a sports cat for the downpipe or just leave the standard one in. Looks like your getting good performance for the mods!

Posted

The Cool thermo is a replacement thermostat. Here's some blurb:

  Quote
This radiator thermostat from Zero Sports opens at 160 degrees F (71 C) instead of the stock thermostat's 172 F. Zero Sports explains:

"The temperature that brings out the best performance from EJ20 turbo is 70C-80C. The stock thermostat opens at 78C and the water circulates after it has become too hot, so it increases beyond 80c during hard driving, causing substantial loss of power."

Other performance thermostats open at 154 F, which can cause the engine to run TOO cold -- if the car never leaves warm-up mode, you'll see bad gas mileage and reduced performance. The Zero Sports Cool Thermo's 160-degree setting is just right for street driving AND performance use.

I'm not the only person using it at all - some big power cars on here also running it. I got it for £35 off ebay, so it's ###### all.

Posted

I made 315 bhp recentley running standard 380cc injectors but they were nearly maxxed out.

Also last car was a newage STi PPP and had an uprgraded fuel pump.

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