my build

[colin_ross]

i honestly dont know

but its not the advice my builder gave me.

But I assume he chose this spec based on your brief? If so what did you tell him you wanted?

It may seem that people or nit picking over this and that but to those of us who have been through it all before you spec seems at odds with your intended use and the parts used a bit of a miss match.

There is no "right spec" only whats right for you.

One last thing - you seen to answer questions with "I don't know, my builder chose it". It's fair enough that they should be advising you but you should chose based on their advice. That way you know what you're getting, why you're getting it and can make informed decisions.

[jef]

i told him i wanted a 550bhp set up for road, with occasional track use.

the only issues seem to be turbo choice and a twin pump set up - that i can gather?

we discussed at length the bits to go for, and i agreed, and went with his advice.

now i answer questions like, would a gt30 not be better, with i dont know - because ive never ran a gt30, or 35 or a built 2.1 for that matter. And i went with my builders advice here on a 35r, as im sure he doesnt want me walking away with my build of a lot of money with something im not happy with. wouldnt make sense to him or me - i wanted high peak power, at small expense in lag - if i had too, as like i said earlier, if im driving fast, i use gears to get the engine in its "power band" i dont expect my engine in 6th at 60mph to be the most responsive.

if you understand what im trying to say - lol i dont know if im getting it across correctly.

i put up the spec, people have commented, and advisd which is what i wanted, as it gives some 3rd party input -for which i thank them, and raised some questions with builder myself.

i didnt really want people to start taking offence, or anyhting if i didnt agrree or didnt know any answer.

the build is going ahead as specced - and ill post graphs, times as time progresses - then its maybe useful for others in the future.

i dont want it to seem ,like im asking advice and then dismissing it. ive always just asked what people thought of the set up

hope that clears everything up lol

[stuarted]

I think the main concern from the people that have posted re turbo choice is that it's going to be laggy and a smaller turbo would be better suited to the horsepower target and making a more enjoyable car to drive. There are some posts in the following thread regarding the 0.63 housing which may be relevant too....http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=002051. I'm no expert and i'm trying to get as much info myself for a future build and I wouldn't want to be buying twice.

Have you discussed the set up with Andy?

[jef]

yip turbo seems to be main bone of contention.

i can understand why, people think itll be too laggy, boost late ect.

why would my builder recommend this turbo?

after asking him about it, the response was they build this set up day in day out, with excellent results - with good mapping its a very workable set up.

its not as if they are a small time set up. price difference is not influencial

so just to get me peak bhp figures?

as for andy, ive given him a basic spec, but not comprehensive - hes just mapping, not building, advising ect. but my builder regularly uses andy on his builds when distance involved is an issue.

like ive said lag to me is not really an issue, as imo your either driving hard, or your not.

thanks for the link - ill have a wee read mate.

[jef]

very worse case scenario - id change turbo and remap

[stuarted]

no probs, theres a Scoobyclinic billet turbo thread on 22b.com as well that has loads of graphs in it, i'm sure there'll be one similar to your set up.

Get some nos then nowt to worry about!

[jef]

haha

ill get the build out the road first

try and then evalute.

anyway ill post up all graphs and info as i go.

im not ruling out changing turbo later, once the expense of the build is gone.

then having a direct comparison on same engine

[jef]

few more pics,

built heads to follow shortly, hehe

so cant wait to get this back!!

[braveheart]

Agree with archie here.

For 600+ you'll need twin pumps and swirl pot if using for tracks. It would be foolish to skimp on that the now.

Well ill second that im running well over the 600 + with the two pumps it is foolish not too or you will have issues later on ive been there so i can talk from expeirence.

Ive not read all the post so excuse my igonarse, what sump are you running. Its not a standard sump. Im running a Cosworth big wing sump and baffle plate if your going to going on the track its recomended im my oppinion and holds i believe 6 half liters works fine so far and WL has been put through its paces.. however if the money is there dry sump all the way because i know for sure once you drive it you will want more so do it right the first time. .easy for me to say its not my money.

If you have a look at my earlier post you will see my graphs im Running the 35 R billet the Graphs are without NOS. hope this helps. Mines in on a 2.35 CBD

Edited September 2, 2011 by braveheart

[jef]

missed your graphs mate?

no , ill be a good bit under 600bhp

just a cosworth baffle plate

but track use will be minimal, ie 2-3 times per year.

FWIW andy f also recommende a gt30r over the the 35

but im going ahead, and will change if i feel the need

appreciate if you repost your graphs i cant see? - altho we have quite different specs, yours is well overspecced compared to me

[braveheart]

The NOS system is installed and enabled but as its a dry system (and injectors are maxed) then we are currently only using it to spool the turbo quicker between gears, it shuts off progressively from 1.5 to 1.75bar and anything under 3000 and over 6000rpm as controlled by the ECU.It wasn't used on the dyno run would of been nice to see the graph with the Nos. 75 bhp jet one one fitted 2 installed may be more to come in the future who know eh..

It's night and day now far more responsive and going how it should be at 1.95 641/600 and it does pull like a train now there is still a few missing jigsaw bits to have done it to it's max injectors that will happen this year..like 2000cc injectors im running 1600cc

[arch]

FWIW andy f also recommende a gt30r over the the 35

Speechless you obviously have far to much money can I have some

[jef]

wow at ^^^

and arch, not quitelol, just prepaired to try both lol

ill go with my builders recommendation for time being - run and assess

[RA Dunk]

wow at ^^^

and arch, not quitelol, just prepaired to try both lol

ill go with my builders recommendation for time being - run and assess

Me personally I would be taking Andy.F's advice over any builders.

[colin_ross]

Why ask for Andys advice (or ours for that matter) and then ignore it when it differs to what you're going to do anyway?

I'll be interested to follow the progress and genuinely wish you well with it. I'm also sure it'll make plenty of power however the area under the graph will not make good reading for a fast road car. Don't be surprised if someone running 400/400 on a standard engine hoses you up a country road.

[jef]

thankyou for your input

but firstly i never asked for anyones advice, i just asked on opinions - which im glad to have been received. i wasnt looking for and never implied i was asking fo help in getting a spec for my engine.

the build was decided before i posted it up, with possibly tweeks along the way.

it seems people are mildy spitting the dummy as im not doing what they say here?

once its all done and dusted i will post up graohs, im not so stubborn to eat humble pie if need be

like i said im willing to change turbo and renap if im not happy with it(its hardly a monster job to do if need be). -i hope people understand this - but i will start with the spec listed and work from there

evry one can come back saying i told you so, blah blah - it doesnt in the slightest bit bother me,

if it comes to that ill post back to back graphs from same dyno for direct comparisons - which is always useful imo.

like ive said umpteen times in this thread already please dont take offence if ive not followed advice, AND that i appreciate ALL input and feedback

and in not dismaissing any of it - just going my own way for the time being.

hope now i can just post progress without offending people

[arch]

I dont think anyone is being negative, certainly from my point of view, I was trying to hint that taking advice from those that have the experience, Andy for example, and others who have already been down the road you are choosing may be advantageous to you. As mentioned by myself and others, I would ask Andy's advice FIRST, before deciding on any spec of engine and turbo/fueling combination. Experienced mappers see these cars day in day out and see/feel the results so are best placed to comment on compatability of components. From prsonal experience I have been round Kames in a car with a "large" turbo and it was comical.

I agree changing the turbo and remapping accordingly is no big deal but it will be an expensive learning process at around £2k+ once you take into account the cost of purchasing a new turbo, gaskets, fluids and a remap and the depreciation should you decide to sell the GT35 which will have a much more limited market than a GT30. In my opinion you should be trying this the other way round i.e GT30 first and if it doesnt provide what you want move up to the 35 and sell the 30.

The one comment I would totally disagree with is your assertion that you will use rev management to get the best from a 35. Depending where you are going to use this car i.e which roads/tracks you may find it very difficult to keep the revs within the required power band.

As mentioned good luck with the build and hope it goes well.

[jef]

thanks arch thats useful about your opinion on keeping in rev band - thats an assumption on my part -which could well be wrong

and i see the obv advantage of doing it the other way round, ie the gt30 first..

i thinkn slightly different as, id hatew to change and spend the money to then not be happy again. atleast ive tried the 35 - your all saying i get better response ect so i should be happier - but ill only be if ive tried both tbh

probably a personal flaw, but i have to drive/experience this myself to make my own judgement - yeah expensive, but if i was so budget restrained i wouldnt be able to run/build this anyway.

Apologies to others - its just seemed some people werent reading what had beeen written and then reposting the same non relevant info, eg 600bhp ect.

and i understand this has all been done before by others who are trying to help me - and for that i thank you.

hopefully we can all just sit back watch the build if people want to - and then FAIL it when it goes wrong lol

[colin_ross]

Not looking to criticise mate. God knows I've made a few wrong turns along the way.

Enjoy the build and keep the pictures coming.

[jef]

cool mate, will do

keep this updated to the end

no matter what changes are made

i actaully reaaly want a dyno graph of the 35 agaianst the 30, on exact same engine

i totally agree with others spool point will be poorer on the 35 by the nateure or how turbos work - but a direct side by side comparision will be

great to see, vrs my impterpritation of drivability.

so who up north would people recommend for a consistant relaibale dyno?

[colin_ross]

I've only ever used dastek at dalgetty bay. What ever one you go to make sure you stick with them for comparable results.

[arch]

One thing I am a bit surprised about is your choice of engine builder, which I am assuming is David at API. Nothing wrong with that at all but given you have an engine builder almost on your doorstep who is held in high regard by many on here then it seems a strange choice when a local buildeer would have made the logistics of things much easier especially when it comes to having important face to face chats ref the build.

[stuarted]

Hypertech in Bonnybridge for Dyno

[jef]

arch

ive just come from a 420bhp/430lb/ft 2.5, whaich was built by harvey - it was fantastic car, but odds and ends needed doing on ocassion and my experience from dealing with scottish specialist, nearly a, killed me, b, put me in jail, and c, i was completley bare-faced lied to.

altho ive had woprk done with RA they were good, but didnt reply to my email at the time of my build request.

any f just does mapping

so whats a guy to do? i didnt, dont know of any others up here -after seeing api's set up in flesh was more than happy to let them get to it.

as for face to face, its not important with constnat emails, photos, phonecalls ect

if i was to go for a face to face visit over several issues with a scottish builder, it would take literally hours of my day, as there are none very near me.

anyway made sense at the time - and i was more than a little disgruntled with the bullsh#t id had up here preveiously - and please note im NOT saying everyone up here is like that - but from the ones i tried that is the experience i received

[jef]

meant to ask who this builder is?

i honestly dont know who your reffering to

cheers