Dyno Day Sat 10th Sept, Wallace Performance, Aberdeen.

[WUZ]

<< Btw, are you man enough to take back some of last weeks comments?

It wasn't even comparing the same car!!! >>

in order that they were asked:

Yes I am M8, after all you still have something of mine that I'll need to get back so, I'm taking back SOME of the comments.

Yes it was the same age, type, model, gearbox ratios, performance parts..................the only difference was in the mapping. BUT it is good to see that Gavin and yourself can now mix it with the big guns of Subaru tuning. You've proven that now.

HAPPY?

Russell

[andrew_forrest]

Just to clarify a few areas where a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing

"It doesn't matter which gear you use on these dynos."

>>>It does if the ECU has been mapped with gear dependant boost and wastegate control, optimised on the road for a dynamic ramp rate completely different to the rollers.

"Ask Dasktek UK if you want confirmation on that."

>>>I have discussed this with Gerry, I'm sure he is aware of it.

"Your car was making it's boost targets in 3rd."

>>> Interesting, what was the target I mapped in for 3rd gear ?

"The advance multipliers on your car were checked and were still at maximum."

>>> This means nothing in this context and should only ever be considered as a long term indicator, short term knock correction can be massive without altering the AM

"The dyno is Dastek, thus the fans and every other facet are Dastek, so identical to Dastek UK in Dalgety Bay. Indeed using your own charge temp gauge the start temp was only 18 C in Aberdeen and you said it was 24 C at Dastek UK."

>>> The operation however can change the final figure as most operators are aware.

The car in question was tuned for road performance, not to be a dyno queen however I appreciate the frustration that can be created when different readings are achieved.

More info on dynos and some reasons for different readings...... for those still reading -

Rolling Roads

Andy

[fai17]

Well said Andy F.....Straight from the guru himself

[Russs]

I don't think this type of online discussion helps much, but if we are going to pick out points please do it in context.

I should also state that I (personally and WP) have nothing against you Andy.

Indeed I have followed your results around the UK and on the forums with as much interest (and pride that you are a Scot) as anyone.

>>>Just to clarify a few areas where a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing

+++Agreed, as can be the fact that what some people say is immediately taken as gospel

"It doesn't matter which gear you use on these dynos."

>>>It does if the ECU has been mapped with gear dependant boost and wastegate control, optimised on the road for a dynamic ramp rate completely different to the rollers.

+++ Maybe I should have qualified my point a little, but I was referring to the fact that the dyno isn't as dependant as others on using the same gear, it can measure transmission losses in any gear you care to run a car in.

But to back up what you say, in that respect of course a car won't display the same results in 1st gear as it would in 6th, for example.

"Ask Dasktek UK if you want confirmation on that."

>>>I have discussed this with Gerry, I'm sure he is aware of it.

+++ I am not disputing what you've said. Indeed I've tried it myself for fun. Best toy I've ever had the good fortune to play with, a dyno.

"Your car was making it's boost targets in 3rd."

>>> Interesting, what was the target I mapped in for 3rd gear ?

+++ No idea Andy, I was only going by what the cars owner said. As it turns out, I got something else wrong, we ran the car in 4th, not 3rd!

More chance of making your boost targets perhaps? But worse for charge temps, although we have already covered that.

"The advance multipliers on your car were checked and were still at maximum."

>>> This means nothing in this context and should only ever be considered as a long term indicator, short term knock correction can be massive without altering the AM

+++ This was only used as a crude indicator. You'll agree we might've learned something if it was displaying a different number.

The short term knock correction was also checked and there were positive numbers in there......

"The dyno is Dastek, thus the fans and every other facet are Dastek, so identical to Dastek UK in Dalgety Bay. Indeed using your own charge temp gauge the start temp was only 18 C in Aberdeen and you said it was 24 C at Dastek UK."

>>> The operation however can change the final figure as most operators are aware.

+++ Agreed, and this case appears to be the perfect example.

The car in question was tuned for road performance, not to be a dyno queen however I appreciate the frustration that can be created when different readings are achieved.

+++ No comment! Not within our control, all we did was dyno the car. Of course it might be suggested that we had something to gain if it made less power, but the main reason for me posting here was to show that we made every effort.

More info on dynos and some reasons for different readings...... for those still reading -

Rolling Roads

+++ Which testament is this Andy

Please take this post in the good natured light it is intended! (go back and read line 3 if you aren't sure )

[Gumball]

<< It doesn't matter which gear you use on these dynos." >>

-a car won't display the same results in 1st gear as it would in 6th, for example= thats my point, between 370 and 400

<< got something else wrong, we ran the car in 4th, not 3rd! >>

- u told me that wasnt a factor !!?? lol

<< The short term knock correction was also checked and there were positive numbers in there...... >>

- due to it not showing any problems since being mapped. slightly rich as you said.

<< Of course it might be suggested that we had something to gain if it made less power >>

- why would that be i wonder? did you know it was the car in question?

that aside. i know the fact of the matter is that it produced less than expected last weekend. due to the above mentioned factors i dont know.

only posted to get an undetsratnding of what happened. £47 plus £30 on two dyno days is pricey. in a consumer market i just wanted to know what money had bought the right figure.

after all, it was only last week that i posted mentioning how happy i was at getting 400bhp. do i spend another £80 cleaning the egg from my face??

[Fee]

Just be happy with the 400BHP figure and leave it at that.

Smile.....its more than mine

[brent_burnet]

Isnt it a fact that no two rolling roads will produce the same figures?

i dont know for sure but from past experience with my old wrx wagon at various rollers

it produced various figures with 30 bhp difference

There are debates about this subject on SN i am sure of it saying exactly the same thing

figures are just that

they dont give you the mushy warm feeling that pushing the pedal to the floor does

I used to go to rolling road days expecting this bhp and that lbs/ft

feeling gutted when i was down on my estimates

but if the car still excites you who cares about figures

unless adding mods to gauge difference if your that curious and have plenty moolah

Its a shame i missed this day as i was working and it would have been good to see my base figures before

i began on this long and winding road (Again)

[Gumball]

<< unless adding mods to gauge difference if your that curious >>

that was all

[~ ~ Cal ~~]

Interesting thread if you are seeking even more ponies ?