sinny Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Hiya folks will describe this best I can, For a while now when starting engine from cold I can hear water swishing about which I suspect as heater matrix but goes away when warmed up, Expansion bottle rises and falls as engine heats and cools, heater blows hot air ok, never over heated, car drives fine and no white smoke ect. Now worrying bit, when warmed up and looking in expansion bottle at battery there is bubbling every couple of seconds, when the engine cools down the water level in tank at turbo drops down i reckon about 2-3cm from top and top radiator hose feels like its empty when u squash it i.e water in tank at turbo hardly moves. Started it this morning with the tank cap off and noticed loads of bubbles in the coolant as it started to expand then after driving it back home I found the top rad hose burning hot to touch yet the bottom hose was stone cold, so i though maybe thermostat stuck but the heater works fine which implies there is a coolant flow also there is no signs whatsoever of emulsified oil. It was in for timing belt/pulley replacement about 8 months ago so hoping a air lock could be causing these problems but I have tried to prime the system but doesnt seem to help, maybe a full coolent flush and clean help? I guess the next step will be to get a hydrocarbon test done on the coolent. Guess I am hoping someone here will say nah its not head gasket its this ..... lol
ciaranrb5 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Sounds like an air lock try bleeding the system. Basically take the cap off the coolent header tank (when the car is cold) and start the car and let it run while you go around and squeeze the coolent hoses.
reako Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 i had exactly the exact same problems but with my temperature gauge fluctuating just last week. sorry to say it ended up being the head gasket. its in getting fixed just now and i got it for a decent price. cant wait to get it out!
arch Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 I would have a sniffer check done to be on the safe side if it is worrying you. I had similar symptoms recently in my RA and it was an airlock, no matter how hard I tried i could not clear it using normal methods. In the end I filled the radiator and block by doing the following, I removed the top radiator hose from the block water cross over pipe but left it attached to the top of the radiator, I then put a spare top hose onto the water cross over pipe. I then filled the block using the spare hose as the filling point and filled the radiator using the top hose fitted to it. Then removed the spare top hose and reconnected the top hose to the water cross over pipe it then bled up as normal. It is possible that the thermostat has stuck closed, does the temp come up from cold very quickly?. When the car is up to temp does it cool down when the fans come on and the fans cycle on and off? When the car is up to temp is the top hose rock solid, it should be a little bit hard to press but not obviously solid and hard to press? I would suggest trying to fill the system as above and seeing how you get on.
BalliSTIc Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Sniffer test ain't foolproof, it would seem. Mine is pushing coolant under boost. 3 negative sniff tests. New thermostat. I'm thinking can't be anything else other than gasket... good excuse for a rebuild though....
mystery machine Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) I had an airlock in my WRX's cooling system after Grieve's changed the coolant. Sound of water sloshing about when cold, etc. In fairness I took it back and they managed to remove it. Similarly, I still have a small airlock in my STI's cooling system after Noble's changed the coolant ages ago. Occasional slight sound of water sloshing about when cold. Mentioned it to them at a subsequent visit but the mechanic insisted it was very slight and nothing to be concerned about. Not totally happy about that, TBH... might ask Hypertech to take a wee squatch next time I'm in. Anyway, moral of the story seems to be... don't let a Subaru Main Dealer change your coolant Hope yours turns out to be just an airlock, mate. Edited March 15, 2011 by Mystery Machine
mystery machine Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Oh man, what a bummer... Sorry if it's a daft question, but will they have to replace both HGs or will a compression test isolate the dodgy one? Mind you when one's away, you do wonder how far behind the other one might be...
ciaranrb5 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 they will do both and use uprated gaskets and head bolts, think its engine out job anyway so being as well doing both, got quote of £1566 all in, moving house on friday so car will just have to wait lol It is an engine out job Sounds pretty expensive to just take the engine out remove the heads have them skimmed and refit with uprated studs and gaskets and then re-fit it all or are they doing other stuff as well?
mystery machine Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) they will do both and use uprated gaskets and head bolts, think its engine out job anyway so being as well doing both, got quote of £1566 all in, moving house on friday so car will just have to wait lol Scary. That's enough to make me think twice about having my car mapped. Not saying it couldn't happen with the standard map, of course! (anecdotal evidence suggests that it does from time to time). I'd almost be tempted to have forged pistons stuck in there while the engine's out... yet more cost on top of an already-huge bill, but you'd at least be gaining something on what you had before! Is the replacement gasket going to be an uprated item then? You moving away from Aloha, Sinny? Edited March 16, 2011 by Mystery Machine
mystery machine Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Here's an idea, Sinny... If your impending house move involves selling one place and buying another, instead of paying the solicitor when the transaction is complete, use the cash to fund a nice forged piston upgrade and a bigger turbo. Then tell the solicitor "the cheque's in the post", because **** knows they wouldn't treat you any better, the robbing *******s... Me? Bitter? Edited March 16, 2011 by Mystery Machine
wrxcook Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 That does seem like alot of cash for the job, I'd defo shop around
mystery machine Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Think that Hypertech charge around £48/hr inc VAT, so that's sounding like at least a 'three man days' job? Blimey. Edited March 16, 2011 by Mystery Machine
paul555sti Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Nah not moving away staying in good ol aloha just another area No the bottom end i hope ( Worked at the glassworks for thirteen years ) Sorry to hear about the car but you are in good hands with Dunc.
reako Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Scottish subarus in dumbarton are doing my headgasket, water pump, cambelt, supplying and fitting an alloy rad, supplying and fitting a decat up pipe, fitting my downpipe and turbo timer with a full service for £950. Give them a shout ive had my clutch done there and a few other jobs and i wouldnt go anywhere else!
reako Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah had a lot of dealings with Dunc over the years with previous scoobies, Well the glassworks will almost be on my doorstep at the new house love the sound of bottles clunking away haha That sounds a superb price for the work being done is this the place here? http://www.scottishsubarus.co.uk/ aye thats the one. good luck with sortin it out!
mystery machine Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 love the sound of bottles clunking away haha Did you consider looking for a hoose in the Mar Policies?
sinny Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 Did you consider looking for a hoose in the Mar Policies? hahaha not quite
craigdmcd Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) The thing to watch for when getting an engine rebuilt is what quality are the parts that are getting fitted, and to what standard does the mechanic do his work. With Duncan you will get top quality work from somebody that was a Master-Tech at main dealer level. If you want to go for pistons, then drop in ones are dead easy with the heads off on a Scooby, no more than 2 hours extra labour to do correctly. If it is performance pistons that need honed/machining then it need the bottom end split and an extra 8-10 hours is involved. As a friend that used to be a Prodrive Mechanic (and hence new his worth) told me - "If You pay peanuts, then you will only ever get monkey's to work for you!" BTW, Head gaskets are approx 12-14 hours honest work, so realistically 2 days work. Edited March 17, 2011 by craigdmcd
Spaceman Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 that seems a hell of a bill for doing the head gaskets, there are loads of threads on Snet bout hawkeye HG going and the guys were paying around 800-900 for the job maybe get a second quote from another garage.
craigdmcd Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Yeah just off the phone to scottish subarus and he has quoted me 600-800 for gaskets,headbolts,timing belt,water pump,oil and oil filter Add up the price for fitting quality parts and see what it all comes to, then ask the labour rate and the expected time for doing (you shouldn't really have seizure time on a car of your age)
craigdmcd Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Why does it need a waterpump? Subaru's aren't common for waterpump failure, and at that age, there is not a high likelyhood of any wear.
mystery machine Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Sinny, it's your prerogative to take your car to wherever you want, but I've been in a similar position myself once and ended up regretting going with a 'cheap option through in Glasgow'... (that's not a comment on Scottish Subarus, BTW – I've never used them). If I were you I'd call Duncan back, tactfully mention the other quote you've been given and ask him for a breakdown of the job, exactly what's involved, hrs labour, parts prices, where the parts are coming from, etc. Perhaps there's a good reason that one quote is higher than the other? I mean, at £48hr it's hardly as if Hypertech charge an outrageous rate for labour, so something else has to account for that large discrepancy between the two quotes... might be something you want to know about! Just my two boab – understandably there's always huge pressure to go with the cheaper option when that amount of money's involved, but that's a nice car you have there and it would be a shame if it ended up being given anything less than the careful treatment it deserves. All the best, mate Edited March 17, 2011 by Mystery Machine
craigdmcd Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 A quick rundown on the parts that are required to do the job "right first time"! Cosworth or similar metal head gaskets - approx £150 Full set of Subaru Cam seals,rocker gaskets, and all other gaskets to make engine fluid tight without resorting to using sealer everywhere - approx £250 New Gates timing belt, tensioner and pulley kit - £195 from ICP Quality oil and filter - £50 And if you want to make sure, a uprated oil pump - approx £150 £800 in parts alone Then how much in labour?
scoobywho Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I will vouch for stevie at scottish subarus hes a top guy and too work as well
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