New Suspension

[mystery machine]

Not single track...unless your driving a bus

The top part (B7007) isn't single track, but if you're going to head all the way to Innerleithen, or head back across to the A7, you have to take the B709, which looks to be single track for all its length...

Were you suggesting a different route to the above?

Edited September 3, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[thewelsho]

Cheers John!

What are you doing for kicks these days then? (if you don't mind us asking).

Trying to play golf and having no success!

[mystery machine]

Dunno if anyone's interested, but I had a play with the KW damper settings at the weekend.

Before I changed anything, this is how it was set:

Front rebound: 44% hard (fitter's setting)

Rear rebound: 33% hard (fitter's setting)

Front compression: 64% hard (KW factory setting)

Rear compression: 64% hard (KW factory setting)

First thing I did was to increase the front rebound damping by quite a bit, which has really brought the front-end bounce under control. Steering is heavier and more feelsome now too. Good result!

I then increased rear rebound damping to keep it in proportion with the front (i.e. harder than before, but still a little softer than the front). Also increased the compression damping by a couple of clicks all around. Car felt a lot firmer, flatter and more stable as a result, but I feel maybe a bit too hard for the road... i.e. a bit skittish over slightly rough surfaces, which makes me a wee bit wary that I've reached a point where grip is being compromised on "yer average road surface". Felt amazing on smooth road surfaces mind - really go-kartish! Anyway, in the interests of keeping out of ditches, I backed off the compression damping to halfway between the old and new setting - hopefully that'll give a practical balance between stability and grip on our 'varied' road surfaces.

New settings:

Front rebound: 72% hard

Rear rebound: 56% hard

Front compression: 71% hard

Rear compression: 71% hard

Basically gone for an even-ish amount of roll front to back via the compression damping settings (without taking into account roll bars, weight dist, etc), and a slightly softer rebound at the back to help keep the back-end in check. Ride certainly is firmer now, but I prefer 'firm' to 'bouncy' (I'm talking strictly in automotive terms here ).

Still to give it a proper drive with the above, but looking forward to it.

Adjustable damping is the b0ll0cks

Edited September 15, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[scooby222]

it is

interesting that youve gone softer at the rear, i went the other way rear 2 clicks harder to stop the nose wanting to push wide and to encourage the tail to edge out in really hard cornering

but fitting coilovers is without doubt the best thing you can do with newage sti's

[craigdmcd]

Told you that you would like them. I would personally raise it about 10-15mm though. By the way, I know it is a completely different car, but when the Finnish Motorsport teams started making Corolla's go faster than the Factory counterparts, they attributed it to raising the car and going softer! Apparently you can feel the grip limits easier

[mystery machine]

it is

interesting that youve gone softer at the rear, i went the other way rear 2 clicks harder to stop the nose wanting to push wide and to encourage the tail to edge out in really hard cornering

It's hard to make a meaningful comparison, Dave - you're running BCs, which have different springs and a different method of adjusting damper power. All I can say is that the car was very neutral with the original settings, and front-to-rear I've stuck with the same ratio of damping, so I'd hope that it's just as neutral with the harder settings.

Driving style comes into it too. As mentioned in another thread, I tend to run with the centre diff fully open, so that I can use the throttle to balance the car against understeer. As such, I can tolerate a bit of neutral throttle understeer. A lot of powerful RWD cars are set up this way - gives you a bit of margin for error, rather than having the car's handling on the brink of spinning if you become over zealous with the throttle. But then some people prefer the latter for their approach to cornering

Also, I have the ALK fitted, which itself is supposed to reduce understeer (maybe you have that too, I'm not sure).

but fitting coilovers is without doubt the best thing you can do with newage sti's

Yes - it's a car forum cliché, but it certainly does 'transform the car' Edited September 16, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[mystery machine]

Told you that you would like them.

You are a man of great foresight!

I would personally raise it about 10-15mm though. By the way, I know it is a completely different car, but when the Finnish Motorsport teams started making Corolla's go faster than the Factory counterparts, they attributed it to raising the car and going softer! Apparently you can feel the grip limits easier

It all depends on what you're looking for from your car, Craig. I made this mod not to increase grip, but to make the car flatter, more balanced and more willing to change direction quickly. I've seldom felt the car wanting for grip, and as such I was quite prepared even to sacrifice some by going lower and stiffer than standard.

I could quite believe that, for a given driving surface, raising the suspension and making it softer would yield more grip and a greater awareness of when the car is losing grip. That's why IMO a suspension setup has to be tuned relative to the roads on which the car is being driven. The stock STI is designed to handle a wide variety of road surfaces, and does so admirably, but I tend to stick to the better-surfaced roads (for enthusiastic driving at least), so felt I could trade some 'bumpy road' grip for better handling on the smoother stuff. Ideally I'd like the Scooby to handle like an F1 car, but it's probably safe to say that even the best roads around here are still a little more uneven than Silverstone, so for grip's sake I'd better not make it too stiff!

Interested to know why you suggest a 10-15mm higher ride height though? I take it you mean higher than it is now, as opposed to higher than standard?

Cheers.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[craigdmcd]

I did mean a 10-15mm higher than your new set-up - I just prefer a little bit of gap between the wheels and arches. Also on the rally car, when it got wet, we tended to go higher and softer, otherwise a low and tight setting will push the front end and overstress the front tyres. Actually I don't feel that standard Subaru suspension comes anywhere close to doing anywhere near a good enough job compared to what it can do with quality dampers.

[mystery machine]

I did mean a 10-15mm higher than your new set-up - I just prefer a little bit of gap between the wheels and arches. Also on the rally car, when it got wet, we tended to go higher and softer, otherwise a low and tight setting will push the front end and overstress the front tyres.

Makes sense from a rallying perspective, where it's all about grip and the clock is ticking. On the ride height - there is still a decent gap there I feel, not much different from a standard BMW 3-series really. But aye, matter of personal taste I 'spose.

Actually I don't feel that standard Subaru suspension comes anywhere close to doing anywhere near a good enough job compared to what it can do with quality dampers.

I do think the standard setup is under-damped. which does nothing for the handling, but I guess they're trying to strike a balance with ride comfort. But yeah, a decent set of coilies goes to show that there's ample room for improvement! Edited September 16, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[mystery machine]

interesting that youve gone softer at the rear, i went the other way rear 2 clicks harder to stop the nose wanting to push wide and to encourage the tail to edge out in really hard cornering

Funnily enough, after a bit more tweaking I've settled for something a little harder at the rear and softer at the front:

Front rebound: 61% hard

Rear rebound: 61% hard

Front compression: 71% hard

Rear compression: 71% hard

It wasn't so much that I was being buggered by understeer with the previous setup, but I could feel the front/rear were imbalanced coming out of bends. Been out a couple of good runs with the tweaked setup above, and it seems like a good compromise between handling/grip/ride. The nose will still push wide if I go into corners at a really adventurous speed with a neutral throttle, but there's no sign of 'power understeer' on the way out (DCCD in manual mode and rolled right back takes care of that! ).

OK, that's the back seat re-fitted*, so no more tweaking for now

Very pleased with how these coilovers have improved the car!

* Why can't KW do rear extenders like BC?!

[scooby222]

thats interesting to hear youve come to a similar setup through your own trial and error - it was john at pro grip that suggested it to me and to be honest ive only played with the settings a little,just felt good to me

will be interested to have a run in your car at some point, when ive more spare funds to throw at the car il probably step up to better quality setup - providing i can notice a difference in ride!

think you could make up a set to be honest - its pretty much bicycle brake line type stuff with a socket to fit over the adjuster on the damper and a knob at the other end

[mystery machine]

thats interesting to hear youve come to a similar setup through your own trial and error - it was john at pro grip that suggested it to me and to be honest ive only played with the settings a little,just felt good to me

Aye, it's great to have the option to customise - really glad that I went with adjustables!

will be interested to have a run in your car at some point, when ive more spare funds to throw at the car il probably step up to better quality setup - providing i can notice a difference in ride!

I'm sure we could arrange something, Dave.

think you could make up a set to be honest - its pretty much bicycle brake line type stuff with a socket to fit over the adjuster on the damper and a knob at the other end

True enough.

Och, in all honesty it's not such a big deal to take the back seat out again if necessary. I never planned on making regular adjustments... maybe more an issue for those planning to exploit the coilovers on track.