Bilstein Or Kw Coilovers?

[mystery machine]

Good choice on the coilovers and ALK, you won't be disappointed. Derek if you have a shot in a properly set-up car with KW's it doesn't leave you any option. Definately well worth the money

Cheers Craig.

Mod-wise, the KWs are a bit of an extravagance for the likes of me, but I was out for a brief blast on the twisties last night and it's absolutely clear that the stock handling could be much improved upon! (still enjoyed masel, mind)

Anyway, the KWs seem to get a good write-up - so here's hoping they'll live up to their reputation

Edited August 8, 2010 by Mystery Machine

[andrew_forrest]

* An apparently little-understood fact...

Did you know that the Whiteline ALK actually increases front-end lift under acceleration and increases front-end dive under braking? Therefore, it should correctly be referred to as an 'pro-lift' kit, or 'anti-anti-lift' kit, if you prefer . The increased lift/dive is a side-effect of the softening of the suspension that the ALK introduces under accel/decel, the purpose of which is to increase front-end grip and therefore reduce understeer during these conditions, making the car's grip characteristics more neutral.

And I wonder who it was, many years ago, that enlightened Whiteline as to the true function of their mis named product

[mystery machine]

And I wonder who it was, many years ago, that enlightened Whiteline as to the true function of their mis named product

But they didn't take any notice?

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a deliberate misnomer - I mean 'pro-lift kit' doesn't sound very appealing, does it? OK, the kit alters the car's anti-lift geometry, but why not give it a name that reflects its primary function, i.e. 'pro-grip kit' or 'anti-understeer kit'? (OK, a certain very nice chap in Bonnybridge might object to the former! ).

Anyway, I mention it only because I've read so many posts stating "the Whiteline ALK reduces lift and dive" that I thought it was worth setting the record straight on here - I'm certainly not holding out hope for Whiteline renaming one of their most successful products

Used this kit yourself Andy? Any good?

[andrew_forrest]

Yes they did take notice !

We had quite an interesting forum debate which involved Whiteline HQ going away and doing some specific testing, then coming back slightly sheepishly to admit that it did infact promote lift, not dive !

I have used them and they do help to reduce understeer but there are other more effective methods of doing this.

[mystery machine]

Yes they did take notice !

We had quite an interesting forum debate which involved Whiteline HQ going away and doing some specific testing, then coming back slightly sheepishly to admit that it did infact promote lift, not dive !

I have used them and they do help to reduce understeer but there are other more effective methods of doing this.

Fair enough. Actually my comment came across a wee bit glib - I should've said "shame they didn't have the presence of mind to rename the product"... might've saved me some head-scratching at least!

But then in fairness their white paper (above) provides a more detailed product technical description than most mfgs would offer their 'internet punters'.

I have used them and they do help to reduce understeer but there are other more effective methods of doing this.

In honesty, I would've bought a 'castor only' kit if one had been available. Did you find that the ALK's increased castor did much to improve steering feel?

[andrew_forrest]

Yes, its the castor rather than dive centre that makes the biggest difference. You can buy offset bushes to fit the std brackets and then flip the mounts 180 degrees for even more castor. It weighs up the steering for increased feel and also transfers more weight to the inside wheel on when steering lock, the dynamic increase in camber can also help if running a typically low 'street' camber angle as standard.

[mystery machine]

Yes, its the castor rather than dive centre that makes the biggest difference. You can buy offset bushes to fit the std brackets and then flip the mounts 180 degrees for even more castor. It weighs up the steering for increased feel and also transfers more weight to the inside wheel on when steering lock, the dynamic increase in camber can also help if running a typically low 'street' camber angle as standard.

Interesting, cheers. More weight in the steering would be a good thing indeed

[Gorbash12346]

i concur, my hawks steering feels far too light and any improvement in that area would definately be of benefit, as at kames it didn't give enough feel during turn in, though that might be just because i'm used to fwd cars?

[mystery machine]

i concur, my hawks steering feels far too light and any improvement in that area would definately be of benefit, as at kames it didn't give enough feel during turn in, though that might be just because i'm used to fwd cars?

I don't think the Scooby's light steering is a function of 4WD, TBH - more likely a combination of the level of power assistance, the steering components (bushes, etc) and the suspension geometry...

Whiteline offer various products which claim to help by modifying the latter two of the above:

http://www.just-subaru.com/suspension-hawk-eye-69870-0.html

[StrikE]

I am lead to believe Litchfield do a power steering pump mod for the Hatch, may be usable on earlier models.

Did you get the KW fitted then?

[mystery machine]

Power steering mod - interesting

KW are due to be fitted in a couple of weeks - had to be ordered from the factory, apparently...

Cannae wait!